Author Topic: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage  (Read 5769 times)

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Pete

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Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« on: January 28, 2012, 02:41:44 PM »
Keep centuries-old social structures like interfering with choir boys and burning women at the stake?

Religion was, and still is, responsible for more death and destruction than any other force on planet Earth.

Who do these people think they are?

 >:(
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k4blades

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Re: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2012, 10:27:51 AM »
Maybe they think they are entitled to their views.

As an atheist, I would agree with many of the criticisms  about formal religions. One of them is that they are hypocrites, they talk about tolerance, but then don't show that tolerance to other religious groups.
So wouldn't I be no better than them, if I behave in the same way. There for, I won't. When I say I believe in tolerance, I mean it.
So if a particular group says they believe in something, though I may disagree with them, I respect that they are entitled to have the view and shouldn't be forced to change their beliefs.
If, for centuries, they have been against same sex relationships, why should anyone force them to do anything different. As long as they don't actively go out to physically hurt someone, then so what.
If, within that group, they choose not to follow a certain route, for example not allowing gay weddings in their churches, the so what. Again, if you don't like that view, then leave that church.
Just as religions show us, its very easy to have a go at those with different beliefs than our own, but if you really believe in tolerance, we should accept that there others out there who think different to the way we do.

 

Pete

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Re: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2012, 10:44:21 AM »
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left.

Slacker

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Re: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2012, 08:24:06 PM »
American, and equally bigoted


Fly

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Re: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2012, 08:56:55 PM »
Most 'religions' don't accept same sex relationships.
Why should they change now.
I'm a vicar, and want to marry another vicar shouldn't be allowed.
If they preach by their book, live it, or drop the pretence.

When me and Our_Lass got married, it was a Civil Marriage.
In the eyes of the law, we are married.


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k4blades

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Re: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2012, 09:14:50 AM »
Whats being discussed here, the rights and wrongs of gay marriage, or the right for a person / group of people to hold a particular view?

Pete

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Re: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2012, 09:46:29 AM »
My angle on this is why should a man in a frock tell our Prime Minister what he should or shouldn't do in law.

Specifically, "The government should not overturn centuries of tradition" considering religion's behaviour over the same centuries.

It's not as if the majority of people even go to church.

Slacker's cartoon simplifies it quite accurately.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 09:48:43 AM by Pete »
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k4blades

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Re: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2012, 12:59:02 PM »
What I'm asking is your question in reverse.
Why should the prime minister tell someone what to do, or think.
The Govts jobs is to introduce laws that protect us, and if that means that there should be provision for gay people to have some kind of marriage, then so be it, that has happened with civil partnership.
But its a different thing all together saying that a particular church should be forced in law to allow such things, if a gay couple don't agree with  that church's beliefs they have other options.
Next you'll be suggesting that our Govt should behave like the Govts of China, Iran, etc, and expect everyone to do exactly as the Govt wants, irrespective of their own personal views.

Old Cruser

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Re: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2012, 12:59:38 PM »
I agree with you Pete, why shopuld ANYONE have the right to tell another person how to lead their life!
I have gay friends and they are always welcome to my do's anyone else who doesn't like them there can quite frankly 'go forth and multiply' Never had that problem though which means I hope we are moving into a society which will eventually accept the gay community.
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k4blades

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Re: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2012, 01:05:40 PM »
So why so you support telling the Archbishop how to live his life or does it only work when its in your favour?

Pete

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Re: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2012, 01:59:42 PM »
>> I hope we are moving into a society which will eventually accept the gay community

So do I.

@ K4blades - The prime minister is elected by MPs of his party to enact the will of the people who voted them in. Crude, but it is the best we can come up with.

The Archbishop of York is not elected by the people of this country, yet he speaks as though he has a mandate, which he doesn't. He is merely a superstitious, deluded person who, as many of his forebears before him have, makes pronouncements based on a false premise. And under that premise religion has murdered and tortured their way through history setting people against people, tribe against tribe, country against country, etc. etc.

He speaks with no more authority than the Monster Raving Looney party.

If you can produce any evidence that there is a god, I will be happy to look at it. The same goes for Big Foot, the Loch Ness Monster, the Yeti, ghosts, vampires, werewolves, fairies, Father Christmas, etc etc.

If you seriously want to know how I feel about religion, and I don't mean all members of a religious community, there are good people in there, watch the George Carlin video.

George Carlin - Religion is bullshit.
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therealjr

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Re: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2012, 04:14:45 PM »

@ K4blades - The prime minister is elected by MPs of his party to enact the will of the people who voted them in. Crude, but it is the best we can come up with.

The Archbishop of York is not elected by the people of this country,

The Archbishop of York would no doubt claim to speak for the 944,000 people who regularly attend Church of England services. He might also claim to speak for some if not all of the 25m people baptised into the Church.
The Roman Catholic church has some 4.5m members.
The Labour party has around 193k the Tories 175k
I'm not saying he's right I'm just saying be careful about criticising his mandate.
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Pete

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Re: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2012, 04:38:53 PM »
So - UK population is over 60 million (2008)

So the Church of England have 1 million...

The number of people baptised in a church does not mean they believe. Most folks I know had their kids baptised in a church but are not themselves believers.

I won't discuss the RC church as their record for paedophilia, and the knowingly covering up thereof  is so vast is beggars belief. I would shut them down tomorrow.

As to the general public, I don't think actual membership of a party a valid statistic in this case.
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left.

k4blades

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Re: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2012, 05:01:46 PM »
Pete, you seriously need to re-read my posts.

Why would I try to prove a God exists when I have said clearly above that I'm an atheist.
I have no intention at all of defending any religion, I am defending the rights of people to choose what they want to believe in....which is why I left the other place for this forum.
I don't think the Archbishop is trying to run the country, he is saying as for as I know, that he doesn't want to carry out gay weddings in his church.

Young Asian girls walk out on their Muslim religion because they want the freedom to choose their own partner in life, often at great risk to themselves with honour killings etc. And the law protects them because forced marriages are deemed illegal due to the fact that someone by definition, is being forced into doing something they don't want to do. Why does a gay man not also have that choice, if he wants a relationship with another man, no one is stopping him, he can make it formal by civil partnership, so whats the problem, the church isn't stopping that, they just don't want to be forced into doing something they don't believe in.

And if Cameron was to propose we force all Synagogues to serve bacon sandwiches, would you support that as a good decision just because you don't agree with that particular religion.

Come on Pete, if you want a debate, make it credible.


(And the Catholic church has 100s of millions of followers across the world, based in thousands of years of tradition.....so why should anyone accept that the relatively few politically correct brigade who think gay marriages are OK, are correct anyway).

Fly

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Re: Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2012, 07:42:51 PM »
This thread is doing my head in, aren't we arguing the same point  :o

Man in frock says he doesn't want same sex 'marriages' in church.
That's his opinion. He's allowed to say it without being questioned about it.
No need to question about who put him in that position either.
He also states, 'civil' partnerships are Ok.

Aren't we now back to what Pete's OP said ?
Archbishop of York: no to gay marriage



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