Author Topic: Essential Information For Shoppers  (Read 978 times)

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hifimad

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Essential Information For Shoppers
« on: February 03, 2018, 01:56:39 PM »
Recently I was in a popular chesterfield supermarket and as I walked towards the escalator I saw a rather stressed looking lady struggling with two children and her shopping bags and having her till receipt in her hand while a shop assistant was searching her bags, as I watched the shop assistant produced an item of clothing which still had the security tag on it and I gather it had set off the alarm.

This on the spot searching of peoples bags and demanding to see receipts as a result of these alarms is becoming more frequent, it has happened to me on a number of occasions as a result of store assistants not removing security tags, this is as a direct result of negligence by store staff and is not YOUR fault or indicative of a crime having been committed and as a result I now refuse to stop and submit myself to a search under these circumstances.

What the shops don’t want you to know is that they have no right under law to search your bags or demand to see your receipt as a result of these alarms sounding. The shopping in the bags is your property, as is the receipt and there is no obligation by the shopper to submit themselves to an undignified search or to produce their receipt on demand, these searches only proceed because the shopper agrees to a search. If the assistant suspects that you have stolen something it is up to them to prove your guilt and not for you to prove your innocence by voluntarily submitting yourself to a search and having to produce your receipt.
My personal view is why should I be inconvenienced or made to look like a criminal in front of other shoppers as a result of the stores staff negligence, the law says I DO NOT.

kromercap

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Re: Essential Information For Shoppers
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2018, 05:09:55 PM »
So you get home, with the tag still attached to the item.
And then...?

Fly

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Re: Essential Information For Shoppers
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2018, 07:47:10 PM »
So you stay in the store till the police arrive instead. No problem.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=23543151
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hifimad

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Re: Essential Information For Shoppers
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2018, 04:11:34 PM »
So you stay in the store till the police arrive instead. No problem.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=23543151
No you do not remain in store as you are going about your lawful business, should they wish to datain you they have to place you under a citizens arrest, to enact a citizens arrest for the arrest to be lawful the person making the arrest has to have directly witnessed the crime they are arresting you for, stores know that if they attempt to arrest someone without the correct evidence they are open to litigation as well as throwing them open to bad publicity. i myself have in the passed six months refused to acknowledge these false alarms on four seperate occassions knowing full well my items were paid for without any police involvement, as to the security tags they come off easy when you get home and you have the tools you would not carry about with you available, perhaps store staff should me more diligent then only the true miscreants would be stopped and honest shoppers would not be harassed and inconvenienced.

Fly

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Re: Essential Information For Shoppers
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2018, 07:56:54 PM »
You sound like the vigilante shopper LOL  (y)

I bet the store detectives love you. Or are you barred from most shops  :))
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hifimad

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Re: Essential Information For Shoppers
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2018, 01:48:55 AM »
You sound like the vigilante shopper LOL  (y)

I bet the store detectives love you. Or are you barred from most shops  :))
it must be said that store detectives and security guards do not want people to know their legal rights, as it suits them to behave in the manner you helpfully posted a link to. for to long people have been hoodwinked by people wearing quasi police  uniforms in an atempt to give the impression that they have power over ordinary people going about their lawful business when in fact they do not.
also what a lot of people don't know is quite often if a store employee believes without any supporting evidence that you may have commited a crime rather than confront you and risking an unlawful arrest and detention claim being made against them they call in the police to do a stop search using PACE.
Stores are using this ruse to prevent the possibility of litigation against them, this is clearly an abuse as under pace rules the police have to have reasonable grounds for such a search, and i suggest a stores unsubstantiated suspicions do not constitute reasonable grounds for such a search to be initiated by the police, i also suspect that as this action is being used to prevent the possibility of civil litigation against the people making the accusations it is tantamount to perverting the course of justic
In such a situation you have no option but to allow the police to search you, however any innocent person subjected to a pace search in these circumstances should immediately go online and complain to the IPCC stating that the police did not have resonable grounds to use thier powers under PACE and they were bringing thier pace powers into disrepute by using them with no supporting evidence.
The reason i tell you to go online to make your complaint is that if you take it to the police directly they will try put obstacles in your way and ultimately try to thwart you from submitting your complaint. i myself have experienced police obstruction when trying to put in an official complaint, which took the form of calls to myself between the hours of 6-30pm and 12-15 am by a number of policemen of ascending rank starting with a sergeant right up to superintendant this included me being shouted at by a pace inspector resulting in me disconnecting the call, so if you ever have a complaint save yourself the abuse and harassment do it on line.
and fly you make a valid point about being barred and there is every possibility of such an overreaction to anyone including myself excersising his lawful rights but that is the beauty of the net you can let it be known that a store or stores are banning people for not only thier negligence but for people responding to that negligence by excersising thier lawful right not be unjustly harassed.

Old Cruser

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Re: Essential Information For Shoppers
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2018, 12:50:13 PM »
Never had this happen - yet, but I suppose the answer is to make sure the tags are taken off  ;)
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hifimad

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Re: Essential Information For Shoppers
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2018, 04:58:03 PM »
Never had this happen - yet, but I suppose the answer is to make sure the tags are taken off  ;)
the problem is that some of the tags look like raised sticky labes and these are not taken off, they are supposed to be deactivated at the checkout but these labels are not always apparent, a case in point is that when i took my son to asda living to buy some lego we went to the checkout and paid for the items and it was not imediately apparent that there was any security tags on the boxes we had purchased, as we were leaving the inevitable happened as it had so many times before the alarm went off and my son said to me arn't we going to wait for someone, being tired and thisty i said it was not my problem and made towards our parking spot, as we got about 30 yards from the store a female security guard came out of asdas main entrance and started shouting at us across the car park and being abusive demanding quite wrongly that we HAD to come back into the store to have our bags searched, i informed her that had she have been less abusive i would have gladly come back into the store however fighting fire with fire i instructed her to s*d off. it is this incident which was the turning point for me as it was there and then i decided that i would no longer take anymore of these people trampling over my civil liberties as a result of a machine which by asda customer services own admission are tempremantal and prone to triggering when nobody is near the damn things at best. you can count yourself lucky you have not been stopped, here is a case in point, i was leaving tesco in the pavements one day and as i left the store in the middle of other customers the beeper started up and a member of security staf came upto me telling me i had to be searched i thought this will prove to be intersting, however before i could raise my rightful objections a store assistant came up and said it was not him it was the woman walking down there. pointing down the pavements centre.

hifimad

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Re: Essential Information For Shoppers
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2018, 06:06:58 PM »
 just came across this which shows securty guards attempting to intimidate somebody   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1xnTdzH0z8

Fly

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Re: Essential Information For Shoppers
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2018, 06:24:47 PM »
Quote
being tired and thisty i said it was not my problem

By walking away from the, 'problem', aren't you just making the situation worse  :-X ::)
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hifimad

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Re: Essential Information For Shoppers
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2018, 06:47:10 PM »
By walking away from the, 'problem', aren't you just making the situation worse  :-X ::)
i understand where you are coming from and it is a valid point, however there is no problem, you have gone into a shop and you have made your purchase and paid for your goods, where in that simple action is YOUR problem ?, in this instance any problem that arises from alarms sounding is the stores problem and not your responsibility or obligation to resolve. if a person wishes to subject themselves to questioning or a search by store security staff it is thier lawful right to do so, equally a person who is aware of his rights decides to refuse such a search also has a lawful right to do so, i am merely appraising people of thier legal rights, and it is up to the idividual to decide what he or she feels is the best course of action in a given scenario. i am not telling people to follow my lead i am just informing them they have a choice.

Fly

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Re: Essential Information For Shoppers
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2018, 09:56:40 PM »
Respect to you for your stance on this  ;)
Over 90% of all computer problems can be traced back to the interface between the keyboard and the chair