Author Topic: GMB threatening Labour  (Read 5720 times)

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Pete

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GMB threatening Labour
« on: January 17, 2012, 08:51:22 PM »
Trouble afoot for Ed Miliband and the Labour party as GMB disagrees with pay freeze.

Why is it union members think more about themselves than the rest of the working class (if there is such a thing) the poor, the young, the old and the poorly?
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Slacker

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Re: GMB threatening Labour
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2012, 06:49:43 AM »
Maybe because when you look at spending power petrol, energy and just general shopping a pay freeze means a pay cut. A call for these prices to be held down would have gone down a lot better. The retail companies that we hear about closing down, and there seems to be a national chain closing down almost every week, are doing so because the ordinary working people have less in their pocket for luxuries.

k4blades

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Re: GMB threatening Labour
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2012, 07:25:22 AM »
Trouble afoot for Ed Miliband and the Labour party as GMB disagrees with pay freeze.

Why is it union members think more about themselves than the rest of the working class (if there is such a thing) the poor, the young, the old and the poorly?

Absolutely. How ironic that the unions are now turning on Ed, when he only has the job because they chose him over his brother.

k4blades

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Re: GMB threatening Labour
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2012, 02:05:31 PM »
Maybe because when you look at spending power petrol, energy and just general shopping a pay freeze means a pay cut. A call for these prices to be held down would have gone down a lot better. The retail companies that we hear about closing down, and there seems to be a national chain closing down almost every week, are doing so because the ordinary working people have less in their pocket for luxuries.

An idea I came across last week seemed a good idea but I don't know how the numbers would stack up. (He's says going off topic...sorry)
VAT is meant to be a tax on "luxuries", not necessities, ie its meant to be a voluntary tax...no one forces you to buy a new telly.
So the VAT on all fuel should be zero rated, and paid for by increasing the basic rate of VAT, currently 20% to 25%
So overall the Govt is no better or worse off.
Everyone who has a domestic fuel bill, (gas / electric currently 5% VAT) would be better off.
Everyone who uses a vehicle is better of as petrol /diesel falls by 20%

There for, those who are really struggling, such as fuel poverty, will find it a bit easier.
Most people would be financially better off, so would be able to afford, the new telly, holiday or whatever.
Cost of getting to work, etc is cheaper.
Cost to business is minimal as big businesses are VAT registered so any VAT they spend, they claim back if its business use.
As the burden is shifted from fuel to more material things, manufactures may object as it is making their goods more expensive but it could be argued that, as I said above, people would have more money in their pockets to buy the goods.

The point being really that the tax is moved away from compulsory elements towards areas where we have a choice, so good politically as it would help those with little extra income.

Like I said though, not sure if the numbers would add  up.

Views please!

Pete

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Re: GMB threatening Labour
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2012, 03:45:13 PM »
I think there is a lot of sense in that scenario - certainly helps the poorest. But whether this government are bothered is another story.
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Alsatian

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Re: GMB threatening Labour
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2012, 03:53:24 PM »
Sounds logical - therefore I doubt the government will adopt your policy!
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therealjr

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Re: GMB threatening Labour
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2012, 03:49:15 PM »
it was always opinioned to me that the government has to know (within certain parameters) what income it is likely to generate.
Under your idea it will know how much it stands to lose from the cut in VAT but not how much it will get back as those 'winners' may choose not to spend their windfall on the luxury items.
I always thought that we should scrap income tax and raise VAT and excise duties. Work would therefore become more attractive than benefits, the 'black' economy would collapse and the rich wouldn't be able to avoid it. Yes pensions for those no longer paying income tax would have to rise but if we had a larger working population this wouldn't be an issue.
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Slacker

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Re: GMB threatening Labour
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2012, 10:04:15 AM »
Wouldn't that make the budget more unpredictable if it was purchases rather than income that bore the brunt of taxes? Also pensioners would be worse off. Helping people off benefits and back to work is good...if there are jobs to go to.

k4blades

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Re: GMB threatening Labour
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2012, 10:23:32 AM »
Why would pensioners be worse off, they probably spend less proportionately on luxuries.
Yes, people need jobs to go to, so that means making the economy more suitable for businesses to create jobs, not much about at he moment that fills that criteria.

therealjr

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Re: GMB threatening Labour
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2012, 11:16:36 AM »
The news this morning is saying the economy will get worse as 31% of us intend cutting back on our spending. If the money isn't circulating its bad news for Gideon.
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k4blades

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Re: GMB threatening Labour
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2012, 12:31:32 PM »
And incredibly they are still several points ahead in the polls. Labour must be doing something seriously wrong if they can't get a lead in the polls in the current climate.

Pete

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Re: GMB threatening Labour
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2012, 12:35:13 PM »
I think it's their choice of leader - I think his brother would have more appeal to the public - when they had the leadership contest I reckon they voted for Ed for all the wrong reasons.

What do you think?

« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 12:47:37 PM by Pete »
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k4blades

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Re: GMB threatening Labour
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2012, 01:42:36 PM »
I think thats part of it, but also people still blame Labour for the mess we are in.

In the 70s the big problem was inflation. What got Mrs T massive public support was when she related this to everyday people, she talked about an "average shopping basket", she personalised it, and the public knew what she was talking about.

Now, the big problem is debt. Problems with the Euro because of Greek debt, Italian debt, Spanish debt, and so on. And in this country, we have massive debt. When you personalise that issue, people know that if they had debt problems, they would have to reduce that debt, pay off some of the credit card before going out and spending more money. But thats exactly what Labour have been saying we should do, spend our way out of debt. And people blame Labour for the debt in the first place, Labour can't on 1 hand blame the Tories for the debt, and then on the other critisise them for trying to cut the debt, but people do want the debt cut, so Labour can't find themselves with a clear message to give, but they are getting all the blame. I can't see it changing unless there are radical reforms in Labour, which the unions won't allow to happen. All Labour can do is ride it out until people decide "its time for a change" which could take 2 or 3 parliaments, but by then, with changes to seating boundries, and possible Scottish Independence, Labour might struggle to ever win a majority again.
However, they have got one thing in their favour, and that is that most people don't think the Tories are that good either, they are just the best of a bad lot.   

therealjr

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Re: GMB threatening Labour
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2012, 01:56:24 PM »
I think it's their choice of leader - I think his brother would have more appeal to the public - when they had the leadership contest I reckon they voted for Ed for all the wrong reasons.

What do you think?

Personally I would have voted for the 3rd brother, Glenn.
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Pete

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Re: GMB threatening Labour
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2012, 02:03:16 PM »
Har, har har  ;D
I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it left.

 

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