Author Topic: Routinely arming the police  (Read 190 times)

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Old Cruser

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Re: Routinely arming the police
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2018, 09:44:31 PM »
Sorastro would you say a 'shoot to kill' then?

My problem with shoot them is that if they are not killed outright they will cost us money in medical fees and then prison - --

Would guns be a deterrent , it isn't in America.

Having said the above I still agree our police should be armed but would need to be crack shots and how do they determine one a split second judgement that the gun ( if it is a gun) is the real thing or a toy from the 99 pence shop but yes they need to protect themselves and the public when under threat.
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Sorastro

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Re: Routinely arming the police
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2018, 08:53:24 PM »
i think that to cite the america is tad misleading, in washington dc last year there were 147 murders that is from a population of 700,000, in the uk there were 736 murders last year. if the murder rate in the uk was the same as washington per head of population then the murder rate in the uk would be around 63000 per year, the murder rate in washington is 857 times uk murder rates,


Or looking at it from another point.....I'm speaking only of the approximate figures of LEGAL guns:-
The USA has a population of about 320 million........The UK has a population of about 67 million.
The USA has a {legal} arsenal of about 300 million guns.........The UK has a {legal} arsenal of about 1.75 million guns.
This equates to just under one gun per person in the US. Not everyone in the US owns a gun {believe it or not} a lot don't so it goes without saying a lot of people stock pile weaponry, apparently less than 5% of the US population own almost 90% of the guns in America, in fact out of ALL the firearms in the world, the Americans own 40% of them,this is why when perpetrators of these mass shootings homes are raided they fined an arsenal of weapons.
The UK on the other hand has far less legal guns, out of the 1.75 million at least 1.3 million are shotguns and these are restricted to mainly farmers and gun clubs i.e. clay pigeon grouse shoots etc. There are far fewer legal guns per head of population than the states. Which obviously means it's a lot easier to lay your hands on a gun {and kill} in the US than the UK.
So if you make a guess as to how many ILLEGAL guns there are out on the streets I would say that in % terms the UK would have more illegal firearms on our streets than the US as in the US you can "borrow" someones gun almost like borrowing a bike

As for "shoot to kill" O.C. as I have said finding the time to wound is usually the fantasy of films, there are many instances on you tube showing someone suddenly drawing down on a police officer and the officer has a split second to react, this leads to a hail of gunfire in which 20 rounds may be loosed off within say 6 - 8 seconds and not always in daylight. I believe most police officers in the US have been trained to "Keep firing till the armed perpetrator is subdued" this to me means shoot him/her till he/she stops firing back, I call that sound advice.
It makes me mad to see family members of the dead perpetrator outside court talking to the media and saying things like "Yes ok he did rob a bank and shoot the guard, and high jacked a car with a woman with a child in the back seat and yes when he crashed into another car at a crossing and jumped out of the car brandishing a gun at the police that was no reason to shoot him".
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Fly

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Re: Routinely arming the police
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2018, 10:39:28 PM »
This is so all catch 22, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Yes arm the cops. If you're not doing owt wrong, surrender when asked by them, and behave.
If you want to be an arse cos you hate the system and want to act like an antidisestablishmentarialistic person, get on with it.
Just risk being shot.
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hifimad

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Re: Routinely arming the police
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2018, 02:16:49 PM »
This is so all catch 22, damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Yes arm the cops. If you're not doing owt wrong, surrender when asked by them, and behave.
If you want to be an arse cos you hate the system and want to act like an antidisestablishmentarialistic person, get on with it.
Just risk being shot.
what if you are a blindman carrying a white stick and somebody shouts at you claiming to be police are you meant to throw your stick away is he being an arse, what if your driving a mini and receive no warning and are subjected to a hail of bullets are you being an arse, what if you are a disabled person inocently shopping are you an arse, you use the words anti establishment as if anyone who objects to this view is somehow being in your own words an arse, funnily eneough i am echoing the views of a number of high ranking poilicemen are they all arses, the only arses are the criminals and they should be brought to justice, and sumary execution is no longer legal in this country and thankfully nor is the death penalty otherwise you would be able to fill a reasonable sized grave yard with the people who would have been hanged but subsequently found innocent as a result of being fitted up by the very same people you wish to give guns to, its a mad mad world.

hifimad

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Re: Routinely arming the police
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2018, 02:44:44 PM »
So if you make a guess as to how many ILLEGAL guns there are out on the streets I would say that in % terms the UK would have more illegal firearms on our streets than the US as in the US you can "borrow" someones gun almost like borrowing a bike

if you are in the usa and you are not a registered gun owner if you borrow a gun that becomes an illegal fire arm, as of 2016 there are 6 million americans who are not allowed to carry guns because they are convited felons i would not be presumptive enough to try and estimate with a guess as to how many of these have in their possesion or have used illegal guns, you guess that there are more illegal weapons in the uk i myself would very much doubt that rather dubious assertion, however i would not be prepared to bet either my life or anyone elses on what i consider to be a rather emotive reaction to our present stae of criminality.

Sorastro

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Re: Routinely arming the police
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2018, 02:00:46 PM »
So if you make a guess as to how many ILLEGAL guns there are out on the streets I would say that in % terms the UK would have more illegal firearms on our streets than the US as in the US you can "borrow" someones gun almost like borrowing a bike

if you are in the usa and you are not a registered gun owner if you borrow a gun that becomes an illegal fire arm, as of 2016 there are 6 million americans who are not allowed to carry guns because they are convited felon     

What I was suggesting was that {responsible] registered gun owners in America secure their firearms, usually under lock and key which would be the sensible thing to do, having said that, as with the bike analogy if he/she is out at work all day and maybe someone else in the family having access to the firearm "borrows" it without the owners permission thereby without the owners knowledge and returns it likewise how would the owner know? also,if it does get stolen, it could be a while before the owner discovers the theft.
As for a legal gun getting borrowed/stolen becoming an illegal firearm, I'm not so sure, the gun itself is not illegal, the way it's used by a person{s} who are not the registered owner.
For example if your car gets stolen off your drive, that doesn't make your car illegal, it's still taxed insured and MOT'd, the legality only stretches to those who are using it without your consent.
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hifimad

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Re: Routinely arming the police
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2018, 02:31:23 PM »
if you steal a car then it is being illegally driven, gun laws are not the same as traffic laws if you take a gun without the owners consent that constitutes theft and that becomes an illegal firearm by dint of its unauthorised carrying and use, the definition of an illegal weapon in the USA is defined as a gun not being A registered or B not in the posession of the person registered to own it, every gun in the USA will no doubt have been "legal" at the point of purchase, which if what you are saying is correct then there are no illegal guns in the USA though the USA themselves issue estimates as to how many illegal guns they beleive are in circulation.