Vince Cable reiterates his opposition to 'fire at will' employment laws

[k4blades]

And going back to my Sainsburys / milk analogy.
If you are so concerned about peoples incomes, why don't you call Justin and suggest he puts up the price of milk, so the farmer can be paid more? That is what you are arguing for when you look at it in reality instead of in terms of idealism.
But Justin won't, he really wants to fight for every % of market share, so he screws down the price of milk, good for him, good for customers, good for you, his employer. But not good for the farmer, because the farmer is a self employed business man, he has no minimum wage, he has no employment rights, he gets up at 4.00am every morning, 365 days a week, investing his own money and working his udders off, but because the left see him as some sort of nasty capitalist he's buggered. He can't even spend his spare time shooting foxes anymore. But thats your idea of a fair society?

[chesterfieldchris]

POST DELETED AT USER'S REQUEST

[therealjr]

And going back to my Sainsburys / milk analogy.

Don't fall into the same trap as Slacker. Don't make sweeping statements that the facts don't back up.
Try googling Sainsburys and the price of milk.

[therealjr]

This is going to get complicated but I will try to answer in order.

Tax: we've already had this one. In relative terms for the amount of the wealth they own they don't pay the proportionate amount of tax.

Cutting earnings. In your model they are cutting others earnings to maintain or increase their own. As I said Not fair

Investment. It was you who said they won't invest because they need to maintain their lifestyle. So they are not prepared to suffer the same pain they are inflicting on others and won't invest to preserve their workers jobs.

Casa: Any idea what that strange looking top floor is? Its the offices of Mr Perez' drinks firm.So he's taken that money out of the local economy (as he's not paying it to another business) and he's using it to prop up another business to allow it to operate at a business advantage against the Chesterfield Hotel and the Ringwood.. And his core business is a case in point. It costs him pennies to make his VK drinks he makes a massive profit on them. Why didn't he take less profit so that his 'customers' could keep more of their money? Because he needs all his profits for his big boy toys such as helicopters and rally cars.

[Slacker]

and once again:
It's Maggie's fault !!!!!

Are you saying utility prices AREN'T rising far faster than wages?

[k4blades]

Don't fall into the same trap as Slacker. Don't make sweeping statements that the facts don't back up.
Try googling Sainsburys and the price of milk.

I don't need to google it. When I read about it, the report said that Sainsburys pay more than their competitors. But the principle still remains.

[chesterfieldchris]

POST DELETED AT USER'S REQUEST

[therealjr]

I do however now see that your vision of "were all in this together", actually means - "were all in this mess, but I'd just like the rich to bail us out please, as the poor dont want to".

That may be true but surely your model is 'we're all in this mess but I'd like the poor to take further cuts because I still want to drive my Jag but that's ok because I'm the one generating the money so I deserve it'.

[therealjr]

I don't need to google it. When I read about it, the report said that Sainsburys pay more than their competitors. But the principle still remains.

Except that it blows your analogy out of the water. We are paying MORE so that the farmer gets a FAIR deal but we are still charging the customer the same as the other supermarkets. We are doing the FAIR thing not the thing that brings the biggest profits.

[chesterfieldchris]

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[Slacker]

Chris, there's been a public sector pay freeze for about 4 years which coupled with massive rises in essential is effectively a pay cut.
I'm not entering into a public / private debate because that's what the government and right-wing press wants worker v worker instead of the vast amount those at the top get compared with the rest of us.
I'm not saying bosses should be paid same as workforce but some are probably on 50 times as much which is obscene.

[chesterfieldchris]

POST DELETED AT USER'S REQUEST

[k4blades]

Typical left wing nonsense, letting ideaology get in the way again.

No one has tried pushing the them and us mentality than Labour, look at at this thread for example. Thats why they had to re-brand and come up with New Labour, but the message still hasn't got through. Not every boss / business owner is a wealthy, money mad capitalist, land owner aristocrat, blah blah...
There are millions of small business owners in this country, painters, plumbers and plasterers, shop keepers, delivery drivers and avon ladies...millions of people who work for themselves. They have to work long hours, after investing their own money and struggle to make any profit at all, though they would like to expand their business and hire more staff. They get no employment rights, they get no minimum wage, they get no sick pay or fancy pension paid for by someone else...but these are the people that keep the country from going under.

And no one is arguing that the poor become poorer, just more left wing nonsense because they think they have a monopoly on caring for the poor. What I am arguing for is a low price economy. Low food costs, low fuel bills, low heating bills, low taxes and the rest. Slacker seems to be arguing for the same from some of his posts, the difference is he seems to want low prices, but high wages, where I have a basic understanding of maths and know that would lead to bankruptcy. The only way to have low prices, is to have low costs, including the cost of employment.

Take Emma, for example. (Apologies for using you like this Emma, and not wanting to put words in your mouth). Here is a young girl working hard to try and find herself a job. Does she really care right now if the minimum wage is £6.00 per hour or £7.00 per hour. My guess is she couldn't care less. What she does care about is the cost of her  utility bill, food costs, transport costs, housing costs, child care costs and so on. If someone thinks we can drive those costs down, while putting wages up, they really are blinkered, and clearly think their ideology is more important than really doing something for the poor.

[chesterfieldchris]

POST DELETED AT USER'S REQUEST

[therealjr]

Just remembered this that was posted 'in another place'
It describes how the owner of a business organises his finances.
Remember that as an 'employee' on £30k I'd be taking home about about £22k

First thing was without exception, they established a ‘Company’ identity for their business.
From the lets say £30000 income to the business
They employed themselves for a wage of say £7000 – under the threshold - no Income Tax paid.
They allowed themselves (the business) the notional £4000 work expenses – a further saving on Income Tax.
They paid National Insurance – at 4% 0n £7000 – not 9% of £30000
Total personal expenses are so far just under £300
They paid themselves a dividend during the year of say £18700 – and on this pay a dividend tax of not 20% but just 9%. - £1700 rounded up!
So from the £30k they got to keep £28k - £6k more than the worker.


That's why we aren't 'all in this together'