Chesterfield Online Forum
General Category => Politics => Topic started by: Kent on April 06, 2012, 04:18:11 PM
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Received this email today....any truth in this.
Read on and pass on!!
Dear Prime Minister The RT. Hon. David Cameron, MP.
I wish to ask you a Question:- "Is This True?"
I refer to the Pension Reality Check.
Are you aware of the following ?
The British Government provides the following financial assistance:-
BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER
(bearing in mind they worked hard and paid their Income Tax and
National Insurance contributions to the British Government all their
working life)
Weekly allowance: £106.00?
IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN
(No Income Tax and National Insurance contribution whatsoever)
Weekly allowance: £250.00
BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER
Weekly Spouse Allowance: £25.00?
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN
Weekly Spouse Allowance: £225.00
BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER
Additional Weekly Hardship Allowance: £0.00?
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN
Additional Weekly Hardship Allowance: £100.00
A British old age pensioner is no less hard up than an illegal
immigrant/refugee yet receives nothing
BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER
TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT £6,000?
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS/REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN
TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT: £29,900
Please read all and then forward to all your contacts so that we can
lobby for a decent state pension.
After all, the average pensioner has paid taxes and contributed to the
growth of this country for the last 40 to 60 years.
Sad isn't it? Surely it's about time we put our own people first.
Please have the guts to forward this.
I JUST DID!
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It's a hoax mate - been circulating in Canada and Australia apparently.
Added:
Detailed Analysis
According to this widely circulated protest message, an asylum seeker (refugee) in the UK is eligible to receive a much higher weekly benefit payment from the British government than do aged pensioners who have lived and worked in the country for years before retirement. It decries this apparent disparity in benefit amounts as unfair to British pensioners. The claims in the message have caused much consternation among British citizens.
However, the claims in the message are untrue. The refugee payment figures stated in the protest message bear no relation whatsoever to the amounts actually payed to refugees. In fact, the message is nothing more than a UK specific version of an email hoax that has circulated in Australia, the US and Canada for several years. The rumour first began circulating in 2004 after an inaccurate and misleading letter to the editor was published in a Canadian newspaper. This initial Canadian version was dismissed as a hoax by government entity Citizenship and Immigration Canada and other credible sources.
Unfortunately, the false protest message later spawned other, equally spurious, versions set in several different countries. As early as 2007, an Australian version of the hoax was circulating. The message caused a great deal of anger and resentment among recipients and has been discussed at length on various talk-back radio shows and in letters to the editor in newspapers across the country. However, the information in the Australian version of the message is also total nonsense and in no way reflects the real level of entitlements for refugees or pensioners in Australia. The Australian Department of Immigration and Citizenship was compelled to publish information refuting the false rumours.
And the UK government has also published information dismissing the UK version of the protest email as false. A briefing paper available on the UK Parliament website denounces the claims in the message as a hoax, noting in part:
The email contains text from a protest email which has been circulating in Australia for some time now, but which may have originated in Canada. Versions also circulate in the United States, and elements even appear in protest emails as far afield as India. The UK version has been adapted, somewhat crudely, for a domestic audience by someone or some organisation unknown. The figures quoted bear no relation whatsoever to the situation in the United Kingdom.
The briefing paper also provides details about the actual entitlements for UK pensioners and those seeking asylum in the UK:
Actual entitlements for people from abroad and UK pensioners
“Illegal immigrants” are people who have entered the UK unlawfully, or who have stayed here for longer than they were allowed without making another application. They do not have the right to work. Since they are in the UK without legal status, they are liable to be removed if they come to the attention of immigration authorities.
People who require leave to enter or remain in the UK, but who do not have it, are ‘persons subject to immigration control’ within the meaning of section 115 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 and as such are not eligible for social security benefits, except those which depend on National Insurance contributions, such as contribution-based JSA. However, it is highly unlikely that a person in the UK without legal status will have a sufficient NI contribution record to gain entitlement to contributory benefits.
“Refugees” – i.e. asylum seekers whose application for asylum has been successful – are able to claim social security benefits and tax credits on the same basis as UK nationals, but may find it difficult to gain entitlement to contributory benefits since these depend upon the person having a sufficient contribution record.
The figures in the final column of the table in the email bear no relation to any UK out-of-work benefit rates. The current rate of income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance, for example, is £65.45 a week for a single person aged 25 or over, or £102.75 for a couple. People in receipt of out-of-work benefits may also receive Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit, but the table does not mention assistance with housing costs.
Asylum seekers – i.e. persons waiting for a decision on an asylum application - are not entitled to mainstream non-contributory social security benefits including income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance, Income Support and Housing Benefit. Instead, they may be eligible for accommodation and/or financial support from the UK Border Agency. Cash support for asylum seekers is less generous than social security benefits; for example, a single person.
Thus this protest email is nothing more than a British version of an utterly false rumour that began life in Canada and has since spread around the world. Regardless of your views on the handling of refugees, spreading such misinformation will help no one and will serve only to muddy the waters of what is often a complex and contentious issue. If you receive a version of this hoax please do not forward it to others. And please take a moment to let the sender know that the information in the protest message is untrue.
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Good post Pete. This myth has been going round email and facebook probably perpetrated by the likes of the BNP & EDL. We have enough racial tension in the world already .
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TBH Slacker, I did a bit of research at Google before I answered the OP (you read so many stories of benefit fraud in the press) just to make sure that it wasn't true.
There are lurid tales of massive benefit abuse, but some papers, notably the Sun, Mail and Telegraph, that always look for stories involving foreigners to appeal to an audience that has been let down by New Labour and now by the LibDemCon coalition.
Of course people wanting to improve their lives will try and get into our country, but it is the job of the government of the day to stop it.
*puts soap box away*
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Good post Pete, I thought somebody on here would answer my question of truth.
i have not sent it on, and will delete accordingly.
Though there could have been some believable truth in it, given the track record
of our social system and past British governments.
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The current government has just reversed some of the good work done by the previous one regarding child tax credits. Some people interviewed on the Jeremy Vine show the other day that work part time now say they will be financially better off giving up work and going on to benefits.
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It doesn't take away the fact that the pension is crap though. I have worked from being 15years old with only a 5 year gap after my daughter was born. I always paid the full single womans insurance even when married (not sure if they do that now?) I'm now pension age and still working although only a small amount these days. The full womens pension has just gone up to just over £500 and month, we are expected to live on THAT. It doesn't go down well when I have worked all my life and see others who can't be bothered to even TRY to get work, holding their hands out and getting benefits.
I know for a fact that families who are disfunctional get more help than famlies who do there best with what they get and it does make me angry >:( I reckon it's time they brought back some kind of a voucher scheme for these disfuncional families so that the money given goes for what it is intended and DLA awarded is also used for the purpose intended.
Rant over. :)
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Good point about voucher systems but it could be argued equally to apply to any benefits? Would you agree with a system that forced pensioners to spend money on heating rather than cigarettes?
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I certainly would Slacker and too much booze --- even drugs if they use them --- mind boggles a coke taking pensioner :o :)
Much of the problem with all this I think is to do with departments not 'working together in partnerships' in each area. Maybe too big a task I don't know - but - if they did I reckon they could tighten the reigns of some people who are milking it. I know there are many others who are not milking the system and struggling along, needs money freeing up don't you think.
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It's too late OC... LOL
(http://www.ichesterfield.co.uk/images/coke.jpg)
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I certainly would Slacker and too much booze --- even drugs if they use them --- mind boggles a coke taking pensioner :o :)
Much of the problem with all this I think is to do with departments not 'working together in partnerships' in each area. Maybe too big a task I don't know - but - if they did I reckon they could tighten the reigns of some people who are milking it. I know there are many others who are not milking the system and struggling along, needs money freeing up don't you think.
Oh slacker.. to me that is being picky.....same goes for those that spend most of their money on booze, sky TV, and even have
cars...which costs hell of a lot more money than a pensioner who smokes.
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Sorry, got the wrong quote. should have been Slackers
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If I read you right Kenty, I agree with you. Too many do-gooders telling people what they can and cant do, if you ask me.
If you've worked, and paid NI, to retiring age from school, you have EARNED your pension - then some smart-arse comes along and tells you what to do.
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Yep you got me Pete, but what gets under my skin, is the fact that the whole benefits system was
set-up for the unfortunate people who lost their jobs. not for some Scrounger to come along
and live of the state, then demand luxuries, because those people who have WORKED all their
lives, have EARNED THEM.
Then LOW and behold, some DO-GOODER FASCIST AGREES WITH THEM, AND DEFENDS THEM.
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If I read you right Kenty, I agree with you. Too many do-gooders telling people what they can and cant do, if you ask me.
If you've worked, and paid NI, to retiring age from school, you have EARNED your pension - then some smart-arse comes along and tells you what to do.
You just called slacker a smart arse ;D
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It's too late OC... LOL
(http://www.ichesterfield.co.uk/images/coke.jpg)
OMG --- when did you take me doing drinking that???
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>> You just called slacker a smart arse ;D
That's because he is... LOL ;)
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If I read you right Kenty, I agree with you. Too many do-gooders telling people what they can and cant do, if you ask me.
If you've worked, and paid NI, to retiring age from school, you have EARNED your pension - then some smart-arse comes along and tells you what to do.
Yep like me - but I only get £125.00 a week to live on after years of paying into the system.
I have actually cut right back my tipples of wine - it's either the wine or the bills --- no contest!!
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>> Yep like me - but I only get £125.00 a week to live on after years of paying into the system.
Then we should start a movement and fight back! Give the politicians a hard time - but be prepared to break few rules, like the revolutionaries below.
Monty Python - Hell's Grannies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIHF4rVTK4E#)
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>> Yep like me - but I only get £125.00 a week to live on after years of paying into the system.
Then we should start a movement and fight back! Give the politicians a hard time - but be prepared to break few rules, like the revolutionaries below.
Monty Python - Hell's Grannies (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIHF4rVTK4E#)
;D ;D ;D Nice one Pete --- bring it on!!! ;D
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My wife has an auntie who was a leading light in SPAG - the Sheffield Pensioners Action Group.
The Monty Python Sketch was based on her... ;D
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I wasn't suggesting it I was saying if the voucher system applies to some benefit recipients it should apply to all.
Re drugs: don't forget the Woodstock generation are now reaching pension age
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Are you saying the Pension is just another benefit like dole money?
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Depends if you are referring to a state pension or a contributory scheme. Isn't everyone entitled to that regardless of whether they have worked?
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State pensions
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I wasn't suggesting it I was saying if the voucher system applies to some benefit recipients it should apply to all.
Re drugs: don't forget the Woodstock generation are now reaching pension age
(http://i40.tinypic.com/biv3ag.jpg)
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Which ones me?
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Are you one of the millions claiming to be there than the actual size of the crowd there?
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Not sure what you're going on about, unless you just don't want to answer the question.
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I don't like tea, I like gin - Aldi advert (2011) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytrg4dpv8Ho#ws)
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Depends if you are referring to a state pension or a contributory scheme. Isn't everyone entitled to that regardless of whether they have worked?
Not sure which pension you mean slacker, but I was under the impression that we needed to pay a full amount of national insurance stamps to get a full pension? My point was that I have always paid full stamps whilst others will not have - so they will have possible spent that - and then still get the same as I do even if it's made up with other benefits? The other things which bloody annoys me on that is that whilst self employed and getting my pension they taxed me on my pension!! Crafty or what! Can't win !!
I can see why some people don't bother, as don't work, and you will get money --- work and they will take money off you! >:(
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(http://i40.tinypic.com/biv3ag.jpg)
I'll be the one in the sleeping bag - always needed a lot of sleep! :)
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Don't claim to have gone deeply into pensions, suppose I should now I'm getting closer, but people who don't work prior to pension age get some sort of benefits when the reach pension age.
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Don't claim to have gone deeply into pensions,
but you do come on and make sweeping statements about them.
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A good debate, this one.
I don't think pensions are the same as other benefits.
A pension is something that you would expect permanently once retired, theoretically in return for a lifetime of contributions. Other benefits should be a temporary measure to help people through troubled times to get back on their feet.
I agree that most benefits should be paid in vouchers so that it is spent on things you would want it spent on, so food, etc, not plasma TVs etc.
The number of times I've heard people say that they would be better off on benefits than a low paid job! When are politicians going to get it into their thick heads that the way to deal with this is to make benefits less appealing, and focus the spending on the low paid, as Slacker said earlier about the changes to tax credits. There's a million and one things Govt, (of any party) could do to reduce the massive over spending on benefits but they haven't got the balls, look at the farce regarding child benefit which was going to be reduced for any higher taxed person, but because they didn't want to upset their "main supporters", there's been all sorts of messing about with it. As far as I'm concerned NO-ONE in the high tax bracket should get ANY benefit...(except a pension), and child benefit should only be paid out permanently for the first 2 children....no wonder we can't get spending under control when we give public money away so easily.
And as for Emma's comments on Pete's post about the benefit cheat, not only do they give you a bad name, but they are stealing money paid by taxpayers like me, to people who really do need it, so the undeserving, un-needy and downright dishonest are taking money away from those people struggling to find work, the genuinely sick and disabled....and bugger all seems to happen to stop it.
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Without making any comment about what is deserved and what isn't, surely pension comes into the definition of benefit if it is paid to anyone and not linked to work done?
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Without making any comment about what is deserved and what isn't, surely pension comes into the definition of benefit if it is paid to anyone and not linked to work done?
Surely part of the tax & NI contributions we pay is for the Government Pension Fund. and is
linked to work done.
After all your pension is based on how many years you have worked, which in turn determines
how much pension you are entitled to.
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Of course it is linked to 'work done' Slacker. I don't class it as a benefit as my working life spanned from 15 - until 60 and I paid into the national insurance scheme.
I know of some who don't bother --- THEY will get benefits once retired - that is my gripe.
Just a thought as a really don't know how this works, but when someone is out of work is their N/I stamp taken out of benefits they get? :-\