Chesterfield Online Forum
General Category => Fun Stuff => Topic started by: Pete on September 06, 2012, 06:06:28 PM
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Made me think...
(http://www.ichesterfield.co.uk/images/atos-pic.jpg)
Hat tip to Gert. :)
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Makes me think too.
I see lots of people with reduced limbs doing extremely well in the Paralympics, and just because they have an arm missing, to suggest their brains don't work is extremely condescending towards the disabled, thats what I think.
Still, an emotive picture gives another reason to bash the Tories without offering any solutions to the problems faced by the Govt with a massive benefits cost to address.
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Made me think
Made me angry! Apart from personal humiliation that person must suffer, what a complete waste of time effort and taxpayers money! >:(
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If that's true, then it is a shame - and whoever is responsible should know better.
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Surely it was photoshopped to make a point.
Agreed ATOS is mentioned, but I don't see it from a political view.
I just see it from a general point of view, her limbs aren't going to grow back, regardless who the gov is.
@Cc As you posted yesterday, Labour were party to closing day centres for the disabled etc.
I think that's bad, shame on them.
I see nothing wrong with seeing pictures that put the plight of disabled people into public view.
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TBH I don't think it was a good thing to do - but closer to home... lets not forget Stephen Hill from Duckmanton who died of a heart attack one month after being declared fit to work by Atos - even though he was awaiting heart surgery.
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That's a sad case apparently screwed up by Atos. :'(
If you take Atos out of the picture, other gov's have screwed up over issues like this.
Like many other issues with gov, none will be cured on here. That said, we are all allowed to speak our opinions.
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I've agreed with you over the photo story, but your point about Stephen Hill is flimsy to say the least. He was told by Atos, presumably by a doctor, that he was fit to work whilst waiting for heart surgery - and within the month he died of a heart attack! Obviously not fit to work.
As to "everyone dies" point, he was only 53!
Someone should give Atos a good bollocking - and its not just one story, there have been many in the press and on tv about how Atos bends the rules with people's lives to meet their quota.
There was an interesting story by a doctor recently who resigned from Atos because of their devil may care attitude - I'll dig it out, it's very uncomfortable reading.
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It simply cannot be right to use the image of somebody else without their permission to make false and misleading statements.
Agreed.
Though because this is bashing the current government its ok because its just making a point..
Disagree, don't twist my words. I don't yours.
I'd already said, 'other gov's have screwed up over issues like this'
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>> I feel that his sad story is again being twisted for political gain.
It's not.
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I hope you don't mean political gain on this forum, not by me anyway :(
You might also notice no Admin have never intervened on a thread on this forum.
My dad died of a heart attack at 53 years of age. Gutted, devastated aren't the words I'd use.
He wasn't fit for work. But we never realised how poorly he was, neither did the doctors.
Yes, people suffer heart attacks all the time, sadly my dad's one killed him.
Is there such a word 'coincidence'.
Respect to the guy at Ducky, and his Gkids in arms.
People will stab at any excuse to blame someone. We didn't.
RIP Dad, love you till the day I see you.
PS: It won't be in heaven LOL ;-)
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The point "I'm" trying to get across Cc, nobody can predict what is going to happen.
He clearly wasn't fit for some types of work, but maybe fit enough to be doing something at least?
Sadly he died. Someone got something wrong some where.
'Im a believer that everyone has something to offer society and can do some good.
Is that on a charity level, saves on wages.
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Isn't that a bit demeaning to those who are thrown on the metaphorical scrap heap?
Not wanting to sound political, but who caused the scrap heap ?
Perhaps it's my age, I just don't see it. They all s*1t in the same can !!
So no party is pointed at.
Money. Greed. Are you going to tell me I'm wrong ?
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Its very easy to highlight a specific case and use it to show how bad a system is. But you could, just as easily show the other extreme. We've all seen the reports about people claiming disability, but then getting filmed running a marathon or whatever. These cases are just as bad as they are robbing the very people that the system is designed to help.
What I do know is that most disabled people want to be a part of society, they want to work, (see the remploy thread), they want to be independent and self sufficient. To suggest that because someone is disabled, they should be excused from work is doing them a massive dis-service.
When a bloke with no legs can run 200m quicker than I can drive it, it shows they can do anything with the right support.
There was a programme on TV about ATOS, which if remember was discussed on here. But if I can remember correctly the main points were that
1) It was set up by Labour,
2) They absolutely do not have targets or quotas,
and 3) The Govts have recognised that there have been failings and are in the process of rolling out changes, area by area.
What disabled people need is some financial help, and also help into the work place, as well as maybe social care help, etc. So my question is how do you know what an individuals needs are unless you do some sort of assessment of that individual.
Or is anyone suggesting that the Govt just hand out a load of money to anyone and everyone without some form of assessment.
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>> Remove ambition/greed and we remove the entrepreneurs and others that drive us forward as a nation.
I think if you had put "...entrepreneurs and others that help drive us forward as a nation" I would agree with you.
But there are ways we excel as a nation that is not business. The NHS for instance. In the UK when you find yourself going into hospital they don't ask you how much insurance cover you have, they just try and fix you.
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I was quite shocked by the picture with the caption underneath. Did this young lady actually give her permission for this poster to be done. Having said that many disabled people will have a sense of humour about their disabilities so maybe I am wrong to be shocked by it.
I think our country is caught up in a get people on benefits working despite their condition campaign. Sensible goes out of the window at times
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What I do know is that most disabled people want to be a part of society, they want to work, (see the remploy thread), they want to be independent and self sufficient. To suggest that because someone is disabled, they should be excused from work is doing them a massive dis-service.
When a bloke with no legs can run 200m quicker than I can drive it, it shows they can do anything with the right support.
What disabled people need is some financial help, and also, as well as maybe social care help, etc. So my question is how do you know what an individuals needs are unless you do some sort of assessment of that individual.
Or is anyone suggesting that the Govt just hand out a load of money to anyone and everyone without some form of assessment.
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I would agree with that, I think the problem with the ATOS was that it was/is being done the wrong way.
Assessments can be complicated and need a team of professionals including the specialists who the disabled person is seeing as they will know the capabilities of the person concerned.
Again have you have said help into the work place there isn't much of that about and we still have many work places which are not fully accessible to be able to offer a wheelchair user employment anyway.
All this is going to take time and money, and it's being rushed - purly to get the disabled working.
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Everyone is able to contribute to society in some way, whether that be in the form of charitable work, or actual paid work. Surely we as a society can't stipulate that somebody is completely incapable of doing any kind of work anywhere ever?
I might just have to take issue with this statement - although it would be wonderful if it were true. My sister is 63 years old and has Cerebral Palsy, caused by a difficult birth where her brain was starved of oxygen. Her condition will not change and she will never get any better (indeed she will, in all probability, get worse as age-related afflictions occur [eg arthritis]).
She has both mental and physical disabilities, her mental age is calculated at that of a child aged 8 years. Her physical disabilities are:
Difficulty communicating - No sense of balance and cannot therefore walk unaided - partial paralysis of left arm/hand and leg - uncontrollable tics/twitches.
To further explain, when I changed my car last year she offered to pay for it as (in her words) I've got £5.00! ::) She also has no sense of direction and cannot get around via public transport bGod knows where she'd end up if she did!) 8)
I fail to see therefore where my sister would fit into society either paid or charitable.
I apologise in advance for sounding grumpy and if I have offended anyone, but, given all the facts above - and facts that Social Services/DWP etc etc all know full well, I have received a letter from DWP stating that her needs/allowances are to be reviewed and I need to let them know the following:
Savings and Investements - out of her benefits I am bound by law to give her £20 per week for personal use (I am her appointee and deal with her finances/welfare etc etc) - how long - at £20pw - would it take her to reach the threshold of £23,750 before it affect entitlements?!! (BTW this is a rhetorical question before anyone gets their calculator out!!)
Housing Costs - She is in a care home and is partly funded by DSS and they tell me how much I have to pay for her care, surely DWP must be able to find this info directly from them?
Personal or work related pensions - WTF??
Any other income - such as?
Sorry, but to me this is a complete waste of time and taxpayers money - go after the feckin' scroungers >:(
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I don't think you have offended anyone, so don't worry about that.
Your case, (or your sisters), clearly shows that their are faults in the system. One of the most basic faults I've found when dealing with civil servants is communication, as you say. You tell them something, but that info isn't passed on to another dept. etc.
From what I know about the atos assessments, they were introduced because the number of people claiming "disability allowance" soared, many of them were seen as scrounges as you suggest, using DA because it pays more than unemployment benefit, but even those that are were claiming could have something like "depression". Comparing someone with depression with someone who has to deal with your sisters problems, well there is no comparison, so there is a need to for an assessment to identify who is who, but then there has to be common sense, and people treated as individuals...something that doesn't happen I'm sure.
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@ Alsatian spot on!
Stupid and thick are good words for this ATOS assessment in some areas. There are some cases such as your sister that I would hope would NEVER be assessed by ATOS.
You are right as well in saying they need to go after the scroungers - plenty of those about but I suppose in amongst some of these being assessed are going to be genuinly ill/disabled people - that's why all specialist involved with each indevidual needs to be on board.
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Alsatian, I must apologise, pehaps I was a little out of line to suggest that everyone can actively contribute in some way. While your sister may not be able to "contribute" as many would understand the word, she obviously still contributes to your life in an emotional sense, and is certainly not worthy of being ignored by society and put on the scrap heap. Sorry if my comments suggested that anyone and everyone could be "put to work/use" somehow.
As for the questions, on the face of it given your sisters condition, they may seem farcical, however they do need to be asked for various reasons.
From a persons benefits, it is possible that they could have bought a lottery ticket, or premium bonds and had a windfall from either. They may have inherited some money or property and sold it. So there are a multitude of ways that somebody on benefits could amass the threshold of savings they refer to. Though I would agree this would be rare, it could happen, and therefore needs to be asked to ensure people like your sister are not having their benefits diluted by people that dont really need them.
Similarly they could have invested in a private pension (though of course would need to be pensionable age to receive it).
They could have inherited property and be renting it, or bought some with a windfall and renting it. They could be in receipt of share dividends etc. so other sources of income is a possibility.
Of course to most these questions wont be at all relevant, but they need to be asked so that money only goes to the right people like your sister.
Thanks for that Chris, appreciate it and yes I do understand your comments on how it may be possible to amass a sizeable amount of money. I suppose that dealing with finances for three other family members as well as my own, I get fed up of filling in forms!
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Thanks for that Chris, appreciate it and yes I do understand your comments on how it may be possible to amass a sizeable amount of money. I suppose that dealing with finances for three other family members as well as my own
, I get fed up of filling in forms!
Snap!! ;)
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Since my inlaws moved here 2 years ago (aged 89 and 92) I can fully symathise with you guys on that one.
Sometimes it feels like we'll drown in paperwork, especially when we ring up with questions and the person is never in... >:(
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Form filling may be like a double edged sword - I am in the process of applying for my 93 year old Mother-in-laws' blue badge to be renewed, and, whereas in previous times it was a simple matter of answering a couple of questions and supplying a recent photograph, it has now changed.
The Govt are trying to reduce the amount of fraud around the Blue Badge scheme (thank goodness) and now, amongst the questions/requirements are:
1. Maiden name (presumably only for female applicants!!)
2. Place/Town of birth
3. Date of birth
Items/forms to include with application:
1. Photo
2. Proof of Identity: - ie Birth Certificate (turned her bungalow upside down and not found it yet - although DCC say it's easy to obtain a duplicate online), Passport, Driving Licence
3. Proof of address: eg Bank Statement
4. Cheque: to the value of £10 - this will be returned uncashed if the application is successful, if not they cash it (to help prevent fraudulent applications)
This may surprise you greatly, but I'm all in favour of this - it should go some way to stamping out the amount of fraud around this scheme.
The one caviat I will make to this is - the next time you see someone displaying a Blue Badge and they get out and seem physically fit (eg no missing limbs/crutches/white stick etc) they may not be abusing the system, as not all disabilities that require a blue badge are visible, they could suffer from a cute angina ( :o ;) ) chronic heart or lung disease.
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@Alsatian, I had all that palava when I filled in my daughters. I didn't particularly mind that form as if it helps stops the 'cheats' it's worth it.
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@Alsatian, I had all that palava when I filled in my daughters. I didn't particularly mind that form as if it helps stops the 'cheats' it's worth it.
I agree with you 100% on that OC
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Is it still OK to stare daggers at those that get out of their car in a parent and child space without a child? :))
Oh yes!
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@ CC defo!!!!