Chesterfield Online Forum
General Category => Chesterfield Discussion => Topic started by: Fly on March 18, 2013, 07:23:08 PM
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The Admin of ChesterfieldOnline support this petition by a local business man.
See the petition website here: http://saveourleisurecentre.com/petition.aspx (http://saveourleisurecentre.com/petition.aspx)
Join the Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Our-Leisure-Centre/497271303664364 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Our-Leisure-Centre/497271303664364)
Or follow it on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SaveOurLeisure (https://twitter.com/SaveOurLeisure)
More on the story here: http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/community/letters/knocking-down-our-annexe-is-shameful-1-5491499 (http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/community/letters/knocking-down-our-annexe-is-shameful-1-5491499)
The Admin appreciate not everybody might agree with them. You are entitled to your own opinions as always.
Please feel free to comment :)
(http://www.ichesterfield.co.uk/images/SaveOurLeisureCentre.jpg)
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I'm backing the petition personally. I'm not a Chesterfield resident, but think I qualify to have my voice heard.
I've paid into CBC's coffers on an escalating scale for the last 16 years ;)
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I've been asked to bring this to members attention.
Funny how things change in a short space of time.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-16953042 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-16953042)
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Can someone explain to me why a new leisure centre is a priority in the midst of a worldwide economic disaster, with actual countries almost going bust? Have we a cash surplus? Are there no areas where money could be spent to benefit those at the bottom of the social ladder?
Tend to agree with Ken Loach on Question Time a couple of weeks ago - what we need is a left-wing movement... :P
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I've been asked to bring this to members attention.
Funny how things change in a short space of time.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-16953042 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-16953042)
Things change, spending money on new one is likely to be more cost-effective long term than patching up the old one
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I can't believe I'm about to do this but I agree with Slacker.
A £2.5m refurb comes totally out of the council tax. The main fabric of the building is 45 years old. The pool area design gives the impression of the water being cold (which if you take its temperature it actually isn't). To do such a re furb simply wouldn't be cost effective.
Cllr Stringer was perhaps a bit premature in saying this is what would happen before he'd spoken to the officers and found out the true picture. I'm afraid politicians do that sort of thing occas well regullarly to be honest.
The new centre will see a contribution from the College and will almost certainly attract other grants.
As to its usage being only available during the day for students, here's my suggestion.
Go down to QPSC at 10am tomorrow morning and have a look at how many fee paying customers are actually in there.
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new Market Hall, new leisure centre, Donut development, Eastwood Park modernisation etc all for a 6p to 10p a week council tax rise so it cant really be a petition about excessive spending.
I would be interested if those who signed or joined the Facebook group could say when they last used the leisure centre or the running track.
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I go swimming there, though not been this year yet - and running track, err, 1965? :))
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new Market Hall, new leisure centre, Donut development, Eastwood Park modernisation etc all for a 6p to 10p a week council tax rise so it cant really be a petition about excessive spending.
I would be interested if those who signed or joined the Facebook group could say when they last used the leisure centre or the running track.
Market Hall, wasn't most of that grants?
Eastwood Park, £1m grant wasn't it?
Donut Development, outside developer isn't it, £50m, like the council could stand that sum?
So the only reason for the 6-10p is to pay for a leisure centre that isn't needed.
Leisure Centre, loans need repaying.
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@ slacker. Just deviating slightly from topic but did Derbyshire go with the 'default' payment of council tax which they posted on the internet?
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@OC Derbyshire did stick to the 3rd year no rise.
The local councils, eg Bolsover, Chesterfield added their own bit. Probably the police too.
Your council tax is going up, regardless of what Derbyshire bleat.
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Election year so predictable freeze
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Freeze for the 3rd year running, something the Labour party can't manage in Chesterfield despite promising the same in their election notices. Wonder what happens in 2015 in Chesterfield?
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This rise was a one-off offer from the government to the councils with the lowest tax base. Chesterfield has a large proportion of band A properties . Derbyshire on the other hand is likely to cut services.
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Thank you for the support shown! :)
Anyone who wishes to sign our petition please visit http://saveourleisurecentre.com/petition.aspx (http://saveourleisurecentre.com/petition.aspx)
All the best
Alan
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Hi Alan - I'm sure some of us will/have signed.
Welcome to ChesterfieldOnline :)
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Welcome to the forum Alan i will take a look at your link :)
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Hi Alan, welcome aboard ;)
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This rise was a one-off offer from the government to the councils with the lowest tax base. Chesterfield has a large proportion of band A properties . Derbyshire on the other hand is likely to cut services.
Mmmmm wasn't that the same one that you refused to take one year because you knew you would get bitten by it?
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What happens next year?
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Mmmmm wasn't that the same one that you refused to take one year because you knew you would get bitten by it?
The previous one was more of a bribe not to put council tax up. It could therefore be withdrawn the following year and put councils in a worse position. This one is an increase to what becomes the starting point the following year in other words a recognition that out council tax is low.
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You sure about that ?
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A Conservative Government telling a Labour council 'your tax is too low so here's some money so that you don't have to raise it as much'
And that's the end of the story today children
See you tomorrow
Jackanory
Jackanory
Jackanory
pom pom
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So it's probably going to go up quite a bit next year then?
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A Conservative Government telling a Labour council 'your tax is too low so here's some money so that you don't have to raise it as much'
And that's the end of the story today children
See you tomorrow
Jackanory
Jackanory
Jackanory
pom pom
Not giving money but permitting the increase
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Not giving money but permitting the increase
Slacker will you please start staying awake in council meetings so that you understand what's actually going on and can thus explain yourself properly on here?
If the government are increasing your base that's an increase in the RSG or whatever the equivalent is now. That's them giving you money. So if you have then raised the council tax as well that means you have lots of extra money to spend. Which rather begs the question why you need outside help to build a leisure centre and why parking costs are going up.
Or are you saying that the government is turning a blind eye to you raising the tax above an acceptable level? In which case how are you justifying it?
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Thanks for the support shown so far! :) And for the welcome.
Collecting 10,000 leaflets in the morning, if anyone wishes to help pushing them through doors please shout out! 07813680361
Alan
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Thanks for the support shown so far! :) And for the welcome.
Stick around, I need someone else to argue with here on the dark side!!!
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Now standing at over 500 petitioners. Not bad in less than a week ;)
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Wonder if the DT run an article and link to the petition this week ?
Aren't DT Chesterfield Champions, Oh yes, so they are.
http://www.chesterfield.co.uk/champions/our-chesterfield-champions/Derbyshire-Times (http://www.chesterfield.co.uk/champions/our-chesterfield-champions/Derbyshire-Times)
This forum was offered the accolade of Chezzy Champs, but we declined on cost issues.
If we had joined, would we be automatically expected to agree with everything Destination Chesterfield, the Chamber of Commerce, and CBC decide.
::)
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This forum was offered the accolade of Chezzy Champs, but we declined on cost issues.
If we had joined, would we be automatically expected to agree with everything Destination Chesterfield, the Chamber of Commerce, and CBC decide.
Bravo! Keep this forum independent!
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Wonder if the DT run an article and link to the petition this week ?
Aren't DT Chesterfield Champions, Oh yes, so they are.
http://www.chesterfield.co.uk/champions/our-chesterfield-champions/Derbyshire-Times (http://www.chesterfield.co.uk/champions/our-chesterfield-champions/Derbyshire-Times)
This forum was offered the accolade of Chezzy Champs, but we declined on cost issues.
If we had joined, would we be automatically expected to agree with everything Destination Chesterfield, the Chamber of Commerce, and CBC decide. ::)
That would have made very interesting debates ::)
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If this goes ahead, what will we get where the old one was? Another car park... ? (http://www.ichesterfield.co.uk/images/no.gif)
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If this goes ahead, what will we get where the old one was? Another car park... ? (http://www.ichesterfield.co.uk/images/no.gif)
Running track?
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Of course, a miniature running track - and finish off with a ride on the miniature railway. :P
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Just had a look at the Save Our Leisure Centre website and the number of folks that have signed the petition has passed the 1,000 mark - now that's a lot of people.
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Population of UK is around 63 million
number of signatures required on an e-petition to be debated in Parliament 100,000
or about 0.15% of the public.
Population of Chesterfield is around 104,000
1000 on a petition
or around 0.1%
Not long to go then before the council would be required to enter into proper debate.
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>> Not long to go then before the council would be required to enter into proper debate.
Which is all I want to happen funnily enough.
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Food for thought?
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/olympic-legacy-betrayed-sports-facilities-1453666 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/olympic-legacy-betrayed-sports-facilities-1453666)
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wow you're right savage government cuts in council spending is to blame for the situation.
oh hang on a minute though
Slacker
Full Member
Posts: 1,469
Re: Save the Queens Park Leisure Centre, Online petition.
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2013, 06:33:26 AM »
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This rise was a one-off offer from the government to the councils with the lowest tax base. Chesterfield has a large proportion of band A properties . Derbyshire on the other hand is likely to cut services.
So the government are giving you more money? So how have you been betrayed?
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A drop in the ocean, probably about a tenth of the annual leisure subsidy
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A drop in the ocean, probably about a tenth of the annual leisure subsidy
but none the less NOT a savage cut, correct?
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Not sure what you're getting at. The 6 to 10 pence rise on council tax that the government are allowing is a different thing from changes in the grants payed by national government to councils.
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What I'm getting at is you've already said the governmant are allowing you extra money though you seemed unable to explain whether this was an increase in RSG or a turning the blind eye exercise surrounding the increasing of council tax above the acceptable level. Now you are publishing a newspaper article about government cuts to try in someway to justify your side of the argument on a new sports centre.
Now you cant have it both ways.
Either the government are cutting your funding or they aren't.
Equally if the government are cutting funding that affects leisure services aren't the council being foolhardy building any sort of new leisure facility that they may not be able to keep open in the near future?
It's the usual problem, you post something fed to you but can't then argue the point out
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the newspaper article is an example of how councils throughout the country are having to take the tough decisions of having to close leisure centres to make ends meet.
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Whilst at the same time you are being allowed to raise extra money and choosing to build a new centre. So what do you know that the rest of the country doesn't?
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The cheapest quarter of councils on council tax were allowed to exceed the 2% cap without referendum as a % rise restriction always hits the lowest. For example if a council's tax was £100 the 2% cap would restrict them to £102 but if it was £150 they could go up £3 hence the lowest can catch up a bit. But I'm sure you know that already.
It is the partnership deal that makes it more viable to build new rather than carry on with a centre that is inefficient to run.
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I know how percentage increases work but I'm not sure how that comes out at anything other than the council getting more not less money.
But let's leave that and move on.
What exactly are the terms of the partnership deal?
i.e How much are the college paying up front?
How much then are they paying per year?
For how long?
What happens at the end of that term?
What facilities are being built specifically for their use (if any)
Do the council get use of these facilities outside of college hours?
What facilities are the college being granted use of during college hours?
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Passed that on to Mandy as portfolio holder
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You mean you don't know the answers?
Also did you get an answer to whether MLC shut before SHLC opened?
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Mandy is looking into both with officers, unlike Sainsbury's Town hall staff have the weekend off ;)
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Slight diversation slackers - it's a good job county offices staff have it off or they would have been helping to 'mop up' ;)
No wages for us this week they will be too busy with the mops and buckets ;)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-22050687 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-22050687)
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Mandy is looking into both with officers, unlike Sainsbury's Town hall staff have the weekend off ;)
but I ask again don't you know the answers?
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I don't carry figures around in my head, have been in touch with lead member who should have a reply in next couple of days
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I wouldn't expect you to.
However the feasibility study went to lead member on 19th Jan
It went to cabinet on 29th Jan
it went to full council on 28th Feb
I assume you did understand all the figures and the possible repercussions for your constituents before you voted in favour of the report?
You did didn't you?
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Current Centre needs new roof,electrics upgrade, smoke alarms upgrade other repairs will total £3.75million
Likely that another £2.5m will be needed in the near future just to keep it running as it is no improvements to users. So £6.25m possible in repairs alone.
Currently The Council pays £1.2m per year to keep old Queens Park Leisure Centre open it is expensive to heat staff and clean
due to wasted space empty corridors and poor layout
It was never purpose built which has led to the problems was adhoc over the years the gym used to be a bar! Ladies wet change has bad odour from inadequate drains
New Centre would be purpose built so cheaper to run no wasted space will cost £8.5m (+ contigency £500,000) = £6.5 CBC + £2.5m College
Definitely have 6 Sports Courts possibly 8
Definitely have 2 seperate pools learner and main and the main would have 6 lanes possibly 8
Learner pool could have moveable floor wich could be lowered for Diving
Definitely have Dance Studio for classes
Definitely have bigger modern Cafe layout
Definitely have a bigger Gym
Definitely have family change for swimming so families can change together (as Stavely HLC does)
Public Consultation will help shape the final centre and will begin soon.
Partnership with the College
College putting in £2.5m PLUS rent every year so 30% of running costs covered FULL Ownership remains with CBC
Will run Termtime only Mon-Fri
College use mainly involve 4 of the Sports Courts 8.30 - 4pm not inc. Lunchtimes but 2 courts always available for booking( maybe more if we achieve 8 )
Students may use the pool at times but already schools have block bookings and at quiet times little useage
Also 3g and MUGA will be booked at quiet times.
How will borrowing be paid for?
Out of the cost savings from the £1.8m Leisure budget that we have worked to bring down, that had spiralled under the LIBDEMS as they were going to hand over to a private company.
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That's a bit more like it Slacker - at least I don't feel left in the dark about what the details were.
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plus rent? How much?
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plus rent? How much?
@ Slacker - no pressure then ;D
@ JR keeping em on their toes eh ;)
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There's a lot of smoke and mirrors from both the council and the 'Save the Centre' campaign.
I'm just trying to get the facts so that we can all make an informed decision when the time comes, either in terms of the consultation on the centre or voting in 2015.
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Probably around £100K p.a.
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There's a lot of smoke and mirrors from both the council and the 'Save the Centre' campaign.
I'm just trying to get the facts so that we can all make an informed decision when the time comes, either in terms of the consultation on the centre or voting in 2015.
:) Yes I know what you are doing - I'm just pulling your leg ;)
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Slackly - no mention in your very welcome post as to the future of the QP Annex?
Oversight? Or something you don't want us to know?
Just askin'
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Bowls and tennis will remain. It will be more convenient for them to pay and book at the leisure centre than where it currently is.
As far as I'm aware the exact layout isn't sorted yet.
The swimming club are giving full backing to the new centre according to the DT. These are people who actually use the place rather than just having sentimental memories from years back.
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So, the running track is going?
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£100k a year?
According to the boroughs website it costs £8.80 to hire a badminton court
So thats 4 courts 6 hours a day for 200 days a year?
£42220
Then I understand there are to be four classrooms built for their use?
Let's go with the meeting room rate for the Winding Wheel
4 times £36 /hr 6 hours a day 200 days a year
£173k
So at that rate they will get a minimum of £215k usage for their £100k before they even start on pool, gym or outside court usage.
£2.5m /125k per year saving means they will get their intitail investment back after 20 of their 25 year usage. Thats no allowing for inflation
Seems like a very good deal for them.
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Still waiting for confirmation of figures. Don't forget they are also putting capital in whilst CBC remain owners
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Still waiting for confirmation of figures. Don't forget they are also putting capital in whilst CBC remain owners
but like I said they will effectively get it back after 20 years and won't have any of the hassles of building ownership, maintenance, staffing etc etc etc.
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Come on Slacker, what about the running track? You've nearly won me over.
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Don't know of any plans to keep it, but it's not been used for a long time
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Don't know of any plans to keep it, but it's not been used for a long time
Chicken and egg.
It's been used socially but not for organised events because the council (of all persuasions) haven't kept it in a decent state. It's a natural ampitheatre that could and should be used for an awful lot of events.
I've been there for galas, It's a Knockout, Military Shows, Sports Events, Fireworks, Royal Visitors flying in. There's a multitude of uses if it was properly looked after.
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The swimming club are giving full backing to the new centre according to the DT. These are people who actually use the place rather than just having sentimental memories from years back.
But the swimming club are similar to the college, they want the facility blocked out on a regular basis for their own exclusive use rather than having it available for the general public. Given that the proposals call for no 'leisure facilities' in the pool i.e. wave machines or flumes I'd imagine that the swimming club will be highly delighted to see all those people they perceive as getting in their way taking their custom to Mansfield or Pond's Forge.
I'll be more impressed if people like the Indoor Bowlers or the lunchtime 5-a-side players come out in favour.
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I see the DT is carrying an article by the head coach at Chesterfield Swimming Club, Simon Mounsey, supporting the new plans. And he's really getting behind the council and having a pop at Alan Maris...
Looks like the temperature might go up a few degrees! :o
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Can't see anything on the DT website letters giving the swimming club's view or their Facebook page despite giving Alan Maris a lot of coverage
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I read it in the paper, not on the web. Big article with huge photo.
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Seen it but was looking for a link to share online
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Royal Visitors flying in.
Charles & Diana visit Chesterfield (1981) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lG_pgdM-nM#ws)
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Where will royal visitors land if they build on the annex? ;)
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Also did you get an answer to whether MLC shut before SHLC opened?
Apparently some temporary gyms and classes were set up at places like Staveley Hall and the Speedwell Rooms so some staff were re-deployed to do that
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Isn't a sticky thread better than a 'BUMP' post, that usually has no relevance to the thread,
but puts it back into the No1 spot?
Bump :P
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I managed to obtain the info asked for
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I don't think Fly was getting at you for your post merely saying stikkies are better than bumps.
Thanks for the answer, interesting that CBC chose to use facilities under the control of Staveley Town Council.
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Convenience I presume. I know several councillors are on parish and borough in Staveley so I presume it was similar then.
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Some facts and figures:
http://www.chesterfield.gov.uk/Branches/Chesterfield/Website/Files/Documents/Leaflet%20about%20replacement%20Queen%27s%20Park%20Sports%20Centre.pdf (http://www.chesterfield.gov.uk/Branches/Chesterfield/Website/Files/Documents/Leaflet%20about%20replacement%20Queen%27s%20Park%20Sports%20Centre.pdf)
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Better late than never I suppose - pity this didn't go out sooner.
Do you know how many of these will be printed Andy?
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Not sure. I agree it should have gone out sooner.
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I don't think anyone sensible would disagree that we need a brand new purpose built sports centre built to 21st century standards and containing 21st century leisure facilties that the tax payers of Chesterfield want.
The problem that we have is that the current position of the council looks like it will a) prevent the tax payers from using the facility for a large proportion of the time b) not contain the 'leisure' facilities that we actually want and c) be built on a site that could, if properly refurbished, be an asset to the town.
This is why I find it difficult to support either side of the current campaign.
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Me too. The one that's bugging me now is, if they build on the annex, we have probably lost the opportunity for a town running track forever.
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I see the number of folks signing the petition has gone up to over 2,500 signatures. I'm impressed. :)
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Got this email just now:
Dear fellow campaigner,
Please find attached the minutes of our first meeting.
Please follow us on Twitter: @saveourleisure
On Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/saveourleisurecentre (https://www.facebook.com/saveourleisurecentre)
Or please forward the link of our petition site to friends, family & colleagues: http://saveourleisurecentre.com/petition.aspx (http://saveourleisurecentre.com/petition.aspx)
Any questions please don’t hesitate to contact me.
Best regards, Alan Maris
Would have been nice to be invited...
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Anything interesting in the minutes we don't already know?
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Quite a response :)
Currently 2950 signatures on the petition website: http://saveourleisurecentre.com/petition.aspx (http://saveourleisurecentre.com/petition.aspx)
Over a 1000 likes on the facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Our-Leisure-Centre/497271303664364 (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-Our-Leisure-Centre/497271303664364)
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Not sure they are making it clear to people what they are signing. they collared my daughter today and were suggesting town is losing it's leisure centre not gaining a new family friendly shiny new one. Whoever was running it today got a bit sulky when she said she was looking forward to a new one being built.
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Would that be a, 'new one', with less facilities and priorities given to students !
BTW, I think the 'Tibshelf Tory' just called you a hypocrite ::)
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Would that be a, 'new one', with less facilities and priorities given to students !
BTW, I think the 'Tibshelf Tory' just called you a hypocrite ::)
Wouldn't be surprised.
Chris and yourself live in Bolsover district, pay more council tax than us, and don't have a decent park or leisure facility. I would be campaigning about that rather than worrying so much about neighbouring authorities.
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The lack of facilities in Bolsover doesn't bother me that much.
That said, I was all for a new sports centre in Bolsover. Pity the allotment owners wouldnt re-home to allow for a housing development to fund said centre ::)
And yes, I do worry about neighbouring authorities actions 8)
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>> Chris and yourself live in Bolsover district...
Got to agree with you there Slackly, these out of town lads come to Chesterfield, post on Chesterfield forums, take jobs from Chesterfield folk and try to tell us how we should run our town.
The sooner Theresa May sorts 'em out the better. :P
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;)
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Not sure they are making it clear to people what they are signing. they collared my daughter today and were suggesting town is losing it's leisure centre not gaining a new family friendly shiny new one. Whoever was running it today got a bit sulky when she said she was looking forward to a new one being built.
That's disgusting. I mean it's almost like someone starting a story that the council were going to sell off Queen's Park!! >;
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Politics is a dirty game Jon... ::)
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Which is why I'd never make a politician.
I want someone who would run the country/county/town for the benefit of all (or at least as far as that is possible.
People like Slacker just want their party in charge regardless.
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>> I want someone who would run the country/county/town for the benefit of all (or at least as far as that is possible.
Well said.
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Often it's easier to get re-elected by doing nothing. I happen to want to improve things.
Luckily at Hasland the Friends group are on our wavelength in terms of improving the park
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That would be the Friends group established whilst the Lib dems ran the council and the forum would it?
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Not sure how long they've been going but their intentions are genuine so what does it matter what their party politics is? I recognise good work done by forums and sub-groups for example the Live & Local events put on by Howard and Shirley in Walton & West
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so what does it matter what their party politics is?
It doesn't at all until a politician trying to take credit makes a comment like they are 'on our wavelength'
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God help any politician who's on my wavelength... :)) :)) :))
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It doesn't at all until a politician trying to take credit makes a comment like they are 'on our wavelength'
By "our" I mean the 3 local councillors, one being lead member for Leisure and the other 2 being deputy and support members for environment who have all worked with council officers and Friends of Eastwood Park. All party planning consultations also took place.
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these are the campaigners I feel sorry for, they (like many others throughout the country) are losing a facility not getting a nice new one
http://www.thestar.co.uk/community/shock-as-stocksbridge-leisure-centre-mothballed-despite-go-ahead-for-judicial-review-1-5630950 (http://www.thestar.co.uk/community/shock-as-stocksbridge-leisure-centre-mothballed-despite-go-ahead-for-judicial-review-1-5630950)
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Except that Sheffield City Council say they are working with the campaigners to find an amicable solution.
http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/council-are-hopeful-on-future-of-sheffield-leisure-centre-1-5576813 (http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/council-are-hopeful-on-future-of-sheffield-leisure-centre-1-5576813)
CBC are ignoring the QPSC campaigners and forging ahead with an unpopular scheme.
Or do you only talk to the electorate 2 weeks before elections councillor?