Chesterfield Online Forum
General Category => Chesterfield Discussion => Topic started by: Old Cruser on January 17, 2014, 03:45:30 PM
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There is an article in the DT this week (unfortunately I can't find it on line for a link ).
'Taking a look at our region's War Heroes'
As it's the 100th anniversary this year of the 1st WW there is going to be a focus on our regions war heroes of this time.
As my late grandfather was awarded the DCM at the age of 18yrs I am currently responding to the DT with newspaper cuttings and a photo.
I just think it's a brilliant idea and tribute to all who fought so bravely back then.
Anyone else who has information they would like to share, should get in touch with :
Jon Cooper 01246 504578
email comment@derbyshiretimes.co.uk.
Or alternatively write to the DT
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"As my late grandfather was awarded the DCM at the age of 18 years"
Wow OC, A DCM was a really big deal at that time. DCM's were coveted by the guys as they came with a gratuity (probably about ten bob). There would also have been a citation which would describe the action for which he received his medal. if you would like me to look it up for you just PM me his details and I would be delighted to do so.
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Hi Poppy I have news paper cuttings, also a private letter from a historian with a more vivid account.
I can share them with you if you want as I know you are interested in history, or I can post them on here.
His brother (who was I think 3 years older) however was in the 1st Battalion Gloucestershire along with him perished when the trench collapsed.
Despite efforts to dig the men buried with bare hands by others they sadly persished.
I can only imaging what it must have been like for my grandfather witnessing that happening to his brother :(
We have no details at all about this incident and I am wondering if that is something you would be able to trace?
His name was Walter Ralph Westbury.
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I would love to see the info you have OC. You can PM me or post on here, whichever you prefer. I will find out what I can about Walter. All I know at the moment is that he is on the war memorials at Tupton and I think in North Wingfield church.
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Thank you so much Poppy, I have my elderly aunt staying here and she is also very interested in her family history, she has actually provided me with all the info I currently have.
I will see which is the quickest way to send it you as I have to put all photo's on photo bucket before posting.
It will be probably tomorrow if I don't get chance later. :)
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Sounds fascinating OC.
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That would be great OC. I have found Walter in the Derbyshire Times. The photo is very grainy and it doesnt really say much, it does mention that he was a postman under Mr Taylor at Old Tupton Post Office.
I also found the citation for your Grandad's DCM which you probably have. I must admit it brought a tear to my eye. He was what was known as "a runner". Exceptionally brave boys in my humble opinion.
Once I know what details you have I can send you anything I find which may be of interest to you.
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Thank you Poppy, my aunt is so excited that you have found a photo of Walter (he was her fathers brother).
She tells me of a rhyme about my grandfather and his DCM which was still being said by the children in Tupton school years later when she herself was there. she herself is now 86yrs.
At the moment she's toddled off into her room but I will post that along with the information tomorrow as I am running out of time.
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We came into possession of Our_Lass's Great uncle's, brothers, 1st world war medals, and dead man's penny :(
All the papers from the King and Gov etc were also present.
We passed them on to Our_Lass's brother. The only remaining male with the same family surname.
Can't wait to see the outcome from this thread
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Fly I Have uploaded the newspaper cuttings/historians account to photo bucket before going out last night but could hardly read it - maybe it's because it's in one file.
I will try again later today with a different way but if I can't get them to be legible on here I may need yours or Pete's help :)
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I'm sure one of us will be able to help out OC, just give us a shout ;)
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Thanks Fly.
I think I will have to take them out of the file seperately into documents and try that way as I can't enlarge them in photo bucket
See what I mean - not legible is it
(http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz276/sailingqween/DCMElesmereWestbury_zpsc006722c.jpg) (http://s835.photobucket.com/user/sailingqween/media/DCMElesmereWestbury_zpsc006722c.jpg.html)
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The little rhyme passed down over many years
Lance Corpral Elesmere Westbury
The DCM has won
The people of New Tupton
Are very proud of their distinguished son
He was presented with a Gold Hunter Watch by the village people.
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The people of the village were obviously very proud of Elesmere. A purse of gold and a hunter watch. Regarding Walter - we are going to France later in the year and can stop off at Loos memorial and take a photo of his name on the memorial if you like.
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Thank you Poppy that is so thoughtful and kind of you. :)
Pete has the information to share about it.
I emailed it today as I was struggling as you wil have read.
I'm sure he will do his best to post it when he gets time.
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(http://www.petermaycock.co.uk/images/oc4.jpg)
(http://www.petermaycock.co.uk/images/oc1.jpg)
(http://www.petermaycock.co.uk/images/oc2.jpg)
(http://www.petermaycock.co.uk/images/oc3.jpg)
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Thanks Pete.
Obviously the first two pictures were regarding my grandfather.
The second two are in relation to his brother Walter who perished in the collapsed trench.
@ Fly shame you haven't got the medals or copies of anything of Margarets relative :(
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Fantastic pictures Pam. Thanks for posting them. (Thanks Pete) :)
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@ Fly shame you haven't got the medals or copies of anything of Margarets relative :(
Will get them and sort it. Don't know why I didn't do it before handing them over :-[
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Fly - Was the gentleman you mention a local man?
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My brother came today. I was telling him about this thread, he tells me he was looking at a photo a week or so which he has of my grandfather with Montgomery - not sure what that was all about but he's going to find out his photo's for me - watch this space
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Fly - Was the gentleman you mention a local man?
Hi Poppy, yes he was. Sydney Kestle. Shuttlewood.
http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Derbyshire/Bolsover.html (http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Derbyshire/Bolsover.html)
WW1
KESTLES
Syndey
[Listed as KESTLE on SDGW & CWGC] Private 64873, 76th Field Ambulance, Royal Army Medical Corps. Killed in action 6th October 1918. Aged 23. Born Stavekley, enlisted Mansfield, resident Bolsover. Son of Mr. J. and Mrs. H. Kestle, of Chesterfield Rd., Shuttlewood, Chesterfield. Buried in PROSPECT HILL CEMETERY, GOUY, Aisne, France. Plot II. Row C. Grave 9.
The spelinf is attrocious on that website LOL
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Makes sober reading Fly, so many young men lost their lives :(
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Respect to anyone who joins the forces. Hand on heart, full admiration from me. MD
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I don't know if you know Fly but Sydney Kestle is also commemorated on the war memorial on the infant school at Shuttlewood. It's on the wall outside. (You probably do know but just in case it is of interest.) :)
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No we didn't know Poppy. Will take the camera out today and see if I can get a shot thanks :)
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Been out, seen the memorial at the school.
Both Our_Lass's kids attended that school. She'd never seen the memorial.
Forgot to take the camera, so photo's later ;)
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Respect to anyone who joins the forces. Hand on heart, full admiration from me. MD
Quite agree. I'm sitting here looking at my Grandad's three medals from WW1 and my Dad's seven from WW2 and the Korean War. Heroes in my eyes, both of them.
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Glad you saw the memorial Fly. I reckon it's a replacement, probably made when the school moved I think. It looks like the old school building is next door. That's what we thought. Would you mind asking your lady wife if that is the case and if she knows when the building moved? Many thanks. :)
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probably made when the school moved I think
Our_Lass is confused. The school has remained unchanged since it was built.
From wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttlewood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuttlewood)
In 2005 a war memorial was unveiled at the school dedicated to the 25 men of both Shuttlewood and Stanfree (the neighbouring village) who gave their lives during the first and second world wars.
Are you getting mixed up with Bolsover CofE's move to a new build to Horsehead lane ?
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Quite agree. I'm sitting here looking at my Grandad's three medals from WW1 and my Dad's seven from WW2 and the Korean War. Heroes in my eyes, both of them.
Weren't they just Dave, brave men all of them
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Sorry for the confusion Fly. When we went to look it seemed as if the bottom half of the building was derelict. We thought that perhaps they had "added on " and moved in there. If the memorial wasn't put up until 2005 that would explain why it looked so new and why we thought it was a replacement for an earlier one. Typically they were installed early 1920's as you would expect. Good that it got put up eventually though. :)
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Nothing to be sorry for :)
Should be getting a photo tomorrow, and one of Bolsover Cenotaph.
Tried google maps but the memorial is unreadable ;)
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Respect MD
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t382/Barry_Fly/theone_zpsceed750a.jpg) (http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/Barry_Fly/media/theone_zpsceed750a.jpg.html)
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Much better Fly
Brave men!
@ Dave what medals have you got - you also must be very proud
I remember my dad had some in a photo frame but don't know what they were or where they went :(
I have in my posession a box with documents - some are in the time of the war.
One actually reads as if my grandfathers parents tried to get him out of the regiment ( I believe he got in under false pretences as some did- it was refused as by then grandfather was 19 and half
I will post one or two on here during next week
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I am busy uploading many papers of letters regarding my grandfather in the war.
I was always told that when he enlisted he lied about his age.
Some of the paper work is from his regiment obviously in reply to my grandfathers parents who it appeared were trying to get him discharged because of his age!
Grandfather was born in 1898.
On his discharge certificate ( I have it but it's a bit faint in parts so I don't think it will be clear on here ) it states his DOB as 1896!
The little Tinker!!
I wonder how many more did the same as he did?
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Here ya go
(http://www.petermaycock.co.uk/images/army-form.jpg)
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Thanks Pete your a star :)
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I wonder how many more did the same as he did?
An old Chesterfield footballer named Charlie Bunyan knocked six years off his age in order to get in! It is quite chilling to read the letter, with its apparent indifference of army authorities towards having under-age kids lining up to be shot at.
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Probably once they were in they were needed too much Stuart. Six years is an awful lot wouldn't one think they would have known?
My grandfathers story with pictures is in this weeks Derbyshire Times.
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Finally got round to photoing the Cenotaph in Bolsover. Yes, there's a spelling mistake on it.
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t382/Barry_Fly/Bolsover%20Cenotaph/100_6594_zps7f96a5a2.jpg) (http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/Barry_Fly/media/Bolsover%20Cenotaph/100_6594_zps7f96a5a2.jpg.html)
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t382/Barry_Fly/Bolsover%20Cenotaph/100_6595_zps519a67d5.jpg) (http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/Barry_Fly/media/Bolsover%20Cenotaph/100_6595_zps519a67d5.jpg.html)
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t382/Barry_Fly/Bolsover%20Cenotaph/100_6597_zps362f5eab.jpg) (http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/Barry_Fly/media/Bolsover%20Cenotaph/100_6597_zps362f5eab.jpg.html)
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t382/Barry_Fly/Bolsover%20Cenotaph/100_6601_zps9ed50323.jpg) (http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/Barry_Fly/media/Bolsover%20Cenotaph/100_6601_zps9ed50323.jpg.html)
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t382/Barry_Fly/Bolsover%20Cenotaph/wrong_zps6f59b579.jpg) (http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/Barry_Fly/media/Bolsover%20Cenotaph/wrong_zps6f59b579.jpg.html)
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Found this.
(http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t382/Barry_Fly/Bolsover%20Cenotaph/grave2_zps617cb543.jpg) (http://s1057.photobucket.com/user/Barry_Fly/media/Bolsover%20Cenotaph/grave2_zps617cb543.jpg.html)
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Always makes me sad to see photo's like that Fly.
Hard times, brave people.
Disappointed that there were no more stories about our local heroes there has to be many more.
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I didn't send this story to the DT Pam, perhaps they might have run something if I had.
I say perhaps, me and Pete were talking the other day, just how many reporters do the DT have ?
They rely on people sending them stories that they can publish. Based on the DT's views.
Apart from 'needing' to see the obituaries, I wouldn't buy it.
I know 'needing' sounds a bit 'big', but I spend 99% of my time in Chesterfield, I live in Bolsover.
I need to know what's happening in the area. Sadly, the DT is becoming a waste of time IMHO
Thankfully, the members of this forum keep lots of things up to date for me. ;-)
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Also I am supposing many will no longer have the paper work/photo's after all these years.
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Interesting take on this from my Father In Law.
He has medals from WW2 serving in Burma in the RAF (177 squadron if you want to read the stories)
He point blank refuses to wear his medals even on occasions like Rememberance Sunday.
As far as He is concerned there is absolutely nothing heroic or brave about war, where basically he was trained
to take another man's life.
He also feels guilty that he survived and a lot of his friends didnt.
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Very few people who fought in a war actually 'talk' about it.
My grandfather told me basic stuff, such as what the wooden rattle was originally used for which I used as my footbal rattle after painting it in the local football teams colours.
It was infact used as a 'gas rattle' to warn soldiers when gas was being sent towards them.
He also recalled the day his younger brother was buried and perished in the trenches.
The true horrors of war of kill or be killed must be forever printed in the minds of the men/women who bravely fought for their countries.
Today I have been to the funeral of my grandfathers youngest son, the famiy were thrilled when they saw the Derbyshire Times as this was the only information they had on this.
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BBC 4 Thursday March 13th. Hidden Histories
WW1 Forgotten Photographs
This is a documentary offering an insight into life on the front line - taken by soldiers themselves using the small vest pocket Kodak camera
An interesting watch for anyone interested in the WW1.
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On Monday I called in to the Local History Society Committee meeting and passed over papers I had scanned, printed and laminated.
Someone has been very busy and I reckon is making a fine job of uploading them.
Not all finished yet so more to go on.
http://www.tuptonlocalhistorysociety.com/index.htm (http://www.tuptonlocalhistorysociety.com/index.htm)
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Not checked the website yet, but good for you :)
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Looks like we can expect some interesting events, as Derbyshire gives money towards groups to set and commemorate the WW1
http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/council/news_events/news-updates/2014/april/we_help_community_groups_commemorate_wwi.asp (http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/council/news_events/news-updates/2014/april/we_help_community_groups_commemorate_wwi.asp)