Chesterfield Online Forum
General Category => Chesterfield Discussion => Topic started by: Pete on February 17, 2012, 07:59:45 PM
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Just reading on the DT website that proposals are afoot to stop selling alcohol at midnight - part of the government's drive to stop 24 hour drinking.
A bar owner on Corporation Street said "a midnight ban would kill us". But a leading licensing practice in the UK, reports that Chesterfield was likely to implement the orders and was already ready to do so.
It wouldn't worry me cos me and Mrs Pete are usually in bed by 11 o'clock... :o
What do you think?
http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/local/midnight_ban_would_kill_us_says_pub_boss_1_4257195 (http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/local/midnight_ban_would_kill_us_says_pub_boss_1_4257195)
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Won't this mean that everybody is pilling out of the pubs at the same time ?
I presume someone has looked into the cost of police on the street at:
A: Everybody out at 12am
B: People filtering out till 6am
Never had a reason to stay out while 6am personally :o
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Filtering out versus one mad rush was one of the arguments put forward when the laws were changed, but there seems to be more alcohol-fed badness over a longer period - Corporation Street in the couple of hours around midnight is not pleasant.
For me, they can go back to the opening hours that were prevalent before this madness descended upon us.
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Maybe policing between midnight and six is too expensive anyway.
Personally, I think there is something basically right about working during the day, having the evenings for recreation and entertainment and then sleeping at night. Just seems natural to me.
Plus as society goes more and more to 24 hour service (like some supermarkets etc) it means more people will have to work unsocial hours.
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I've never been a night club type person, even in my younger years.
Finish work, goto pub, go home ;)
Obviously the bar owners would prefer the pi** heads still drinking around town till 6am.
But they're not the ones paying for all the disrupt outside the bar.
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Whats wrong with what we did years ago on a friday? Finish work at 5pm, in the pub for half past, get the lats bus home.Why do people want to be drinking up to 6am. Its unreal. These people are obviously not at work/school/or whatever - they need to spend the daylight hours sleeping it off. So who are they?Thursdays offers on drinks make it better than fridays for example.
Is it me, or if we went back to pub liscencing hours as they used to be, maybe drinkers would fill the bars in the shortened hours that they were allowed in, like when they shut at 10.30pm, or 11.00 on saturdays.
Sunday lunchtime pub hours were great- 12-2pm and go home for dinner(several pints later).
I'm sorry but 24 hour culture of drinking in town just promotes future alcoholism, as its teens apparently doing it,and many times on my way to work at around 5am there are young people displaying signs of drunkeness, and it does not seem right somehow at that time in the morning.
I just think its leading to a future when our present teenagers are going to end up with a drink problem later in life.
Stuff what the present owner on Corporation St thinks-he will have to change with the times just like everyone else has had to do. :-\
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There's a different culture these days amongst the 'kids'. I work with a lot of 18-25 year olds and a lot of them will work till 9, 10 or even 11 then go home get changed and go out then.
If you think about it theres no difference in terms of the length of drinking time. An average Friday or Saturday night for me at their age was be in the local for 7 meet up with the mates, bus into town for 7.45-8 then either in the pubs till 11 (4 hours drinking) or the nightclub till 2 (7 hours). If the kids now don't go out till 11 then thats either 3 am or 6 am to them.
The only difference is instead of everyone ending up on the streets at 11ish or 2ish they are much more spread out.
Not sure if this is still true but I was also once told that Chesterfield Town centre is unique because people will go out and visit 8-10 pubs in an evening where as in other places they tend to visit no more than 2-3.
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I'm not sure if that's unique or not, John, but it struck me as surprising when I first moved up here from a quieter part of Portsmouth, where we tended to start and finish in our local, and might have nipped over the road to the next nearest one for a pint, but that'd be the extent of our adventures. Now and then we might have ventured towards areas of the city that had a greater concentration of pubs but it was a dangerous and exotic thing to do, since there was a perceptably tribal feel to the various districts.
I suppose a town centre pub doesn't attract a great "local" crowd through its being in an area where comparatively few people live. Still, until the 1989 reforms the ones in our town centre all had seats and tables to encourage folk to stay, and and had enough regulars to take part in pub sports leagues. The culture has changed, for sure, and I'm not easily persuaded that things are better for the introduction of what they laughingly call the "night-time economy."
And as for midnight closing killing off town centre pubs - I thought that was the job of the smoking ban? :D
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Good points Jon - but surely there are not enough people working odd hours to sway the decision.
Would be interested in knowing how much trouble there is between midnight and six o'clock.
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.....................meet up with the mates............
You bragging you had mates?! ;D
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well ok I was more of a hanger on
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Just found this:
"Since extended hours were introduced, there has been a 25% rise in serious violent offences committed between 3am and 6am. Separate figures from the British Crime Survey reveal there were 1,087,000 violent attacks by drunks in the first full year of the reforms – up 64,000 on the previous year. A person at a licensed premises is five times more likely to be a victim of violence. Official figures reveal a 33% increase in drink-related cases seen by accident and emergency departments in England since 2005."
http://bit.ly/bZVJnQ (http://bit.ly/bZVJnQ)
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Though I agree with whats being said by many here, that opening hours should be restricted, interesting fact from tonight's Panorama. Though the amount of alcohol consumption has fallen in this country, admissions to hospital due to alcohol abuse is increasing. One of the reasons is the fact that much more drinking is done at home than previously, so dealing with that issue may also help to reduce some of the problems.
I don't know how you would do that though unless its through cost controls.
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Talking to Some Youngsters, they seem to think, that there will be MORE Trouble if everybody
is Turfed out at the Same Time.
k4blades is Probably on the right track, many Youngster drink cheap beer at home
then go down Town From 10pm Onwards.
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The kids do drink at home first, they refer to it as front loading.
Doesn't surprise me that there has been a 25% increase between 3 and 6 because we all used to be tucked up in bed having gone home at 2.
Question is has there been a corresponding drop before 3?
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Talking to Some Youngsters, they seem to think, that there will be MORE Trouble if everybody
is Turfed out at the Same Time.
k4blades is Probably on the right track, many Youngster drink cheap beer at home
then go down Town From 10pm Onwards.
Of course there will be. They are all going to want a taxi at the same time,but not be able to get one, and have to wait for ages. Mad scramble when a taxi turns up, poor taxi driver aint got a clue who he is picking up (not his fault), etc, etc. Seen it all before (remember Aquarius)- as soon as a taxi appeared it was survival of the fittest - who dares wins. Those of us old enough to remember what it was like then (i.e. me) when everyone was chucked out at the same time - it was not good.
I don't know what the solution is - I can still see trouble looming, but maybe if the police and council can ensure there is enough taxis, and police, at the relevant time, maybe it will work.
Lets hope so, because some coordinated planning has to go in to this to succeed.
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The problem is that the yobbish behaviour is just a reflection on todays society.
There has always been people getting drunk, when I was a lad we were no different, but we stayed within certain boundaries. We would get drunk and then go home with our tails between our legs feeling sorry for ourselves, but no harm done.
And thats because we were expected to behave properly.
Going out 'till the early hours was a "special occasion", going to a night club was done if it was Christmas or Valentines or something, but we couldn't afford to go every weekend, let alone every night. Then when we did go, we dressed as if it was special too, suit and tie, we would never have got in wearing trainers and jeans.
Those standards no longer apply, going out on an all night drinking session is part of the routine these days, and nothing to get excited about so they make excitement in other ways, by for example getting int punch-ups. Boys and girls.
Also girls back then seemed to go out for the dance where as now its for the drink, or to get pulled.
So to address the yobbish behaviour we need to look at broader attitudes in society, for example getting people to respect the police, again something that isn't like it used to be. Teenagers getting drunk has and will always happen, but we have to learn how to let that happen without the bigger consequences.
I think going back to an earlier closing time would help, and only a limited number of venues, on limited occasions, being allowed to open later. As part of their licensing, they should also pay a bit extra towards the cost of policing that, in the same way as football clubs have to pay for policing.
It needs a joint approach from all involved, such as making sure there is lots of public transport about. For example if pubs kick out al 11.00, make sure the town is flooded with buses / taxis between 11 and 12 to get everyone home, but they would need support financially and from police so they don't suffer from yobs too.
I think that addressing the issue of cheap supermarket boose will help, so people don't get drunk before they go out, and encourage trade from pubs as well, but how you do that, I don't know. Especially as both the supermarkets and the boose industry are very strong politically, (lobbying) and have a lot of influence.
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Be careful what you wish for when it comes to cheap supermarket booze. The new rules in Scotland which are likely to be adopted here set a minimum price for alcohol. They also ban discounting.
So beer boxes at 2-£12 or 3-£20? Gone
Wine 3-£12? gone
Bottle of scotch £10 instead of £15 gone
Assuming you drink in 'moderation' and these rules won't affect your consumption (which is the aim after all) what is the effect going to be on your pocket?
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It wouldn't affect my pocket at all as we drink very little, apart from Xmas maybe. But it is a valid point, which is why a solution is difficult. However, if it could be administered to shops and not pubs, then I'm sure the supermarkets would survive. Maybe a way to do this is through VAT.
Different VAT rates apply to certain foods eaten in compared to taken out, from restaurants. For example, if you buy a milkshake from McDs to eat in the store you get charged VAT as its part of a "eaten out meal" if you see what I mean. Buy the same milkshake to take out, and its classed as a purchase of a dairy product that is zero rated for VAT.
Apply the same principle it booze (in reverse) so that it costs more to buy booze to take home than it does to drink in the pub. As Panoroma said the other night, when people drink in pubs, there are more controls, such as age checks, not serving drunk people and people thinking about getting home so less problems, and also better for the pub trade.
There are no easy answers though.
As an afterthought, I remember all the talk the other week about the girl who got stabbed in the park in Doncaster, and there were lots of reports about the park being used by drunks standing around all day with their cans, and I think the suspect in the murder was one of those, so reducing booze bought from shops may help tackle these sorts of problems too, reducing the number of "street drinkers".
Unfortunately, what ever measures are taken, the innocent will end up paying in the end.
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It appears that folks are calling for the return of nightclubs as an alternative, so folks can go drinking in pubs and then go home, or if they want to, go on to a nightclub to drink later on into the night.
Good idea? Bad idea?
I used to know a guy who was really on top of this stuff, but can't get his opinion 'cos he only posts on right wing boards these days... LOL
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Good idea.
(I mean the nightclub thing, not the bit about posting on right wing boards).
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Just kiddin' ;)