Chesterfield Online Forum

General Category => Politics => Topic started by: Sorastro on February 17, 2019, 01:55:27 PM

Title: Shamima Begum and ISIS
Post by: Sorastro on February 17, 2019, 01:55:27 PM
Some would say she is a British citizen and therefore should be entitled to return. People say no! but then again Trump says it's the E.U. countries duty to take ISIS captives {if from that country originally} and put them on trial, she obviously being one of them.
Having said that apparently over 300 so called ISIS have returned to this country already over the past months and you have to ask yourselves where are they, what are they doing, and more importantly how many of them are behind bars? all I see is dozens and dozens of ISIS sleeper cells being set up in this country and once established routing them out would be almost impossible.

Trump has got a point, why go to all the trouble of fighting these fanatics just to have to let them go, I believe Barak Obama said when he was president " The U.S.A. are not going to become the worlds police" I honestly don't think it's fair to expect the U.S. to try and house and deal with all these captives as they are from many many countries so it's got to be a shared responsibility.

As for her family begging the government to allow her {and now her non citizen child} back home, I sincerely hope if they agree it's just to put her behind bars. 
Title: Re: Shamima Begum and ISIS
Post by: Old Cruser on February 19, 2019, 10:53:48 AM
I will stick with my initial feelings on this.
Bring her back.
Remove the baby from the family.
Take her British Citizen Ship ( is that possible).
Send her back.
Anyone who can look in a bin to find a human head or any living things head and not be affected has a BIG PROBLEM they are a risk to us.
I am sad that as a teenager she made this unwise choice but it sounds as if she had already been radicalised before she left the UK.
I am sad for her loss of a normal teenage  life  and beyond which she will have.

Title: Re: Shamima Begum and ISIS
Post by: Sorastro on February 19, 2019, 12:47:29 PM
This whole question arises from one big failing of the judicial system in this country, "Wrongdoers have rights too"
Just what do you have to do or say in this country before the judiciary says "Sorry that won't wash, your getting the book thrown at you"

There has to be a cut off point. Many lawyers, in Britain, defending the indefensible have to resort to finding loopholes in the law to get their clients off as guilt or innocence no longer seems to be the issue. You only have to look at that trial a few years ago now {I think it was Guinness or something} the guy in the docks lawyers had the jury believe he had basically gone ga ga and was not fit to stand trial, he must have put on a convincing act  as the jury bought it and the case was dismissed, about 3 weeks later that same bloke was chairing a large corporation earning mega bucks.
These girls WILLINGLY joined ISIS they knew what they were doing, they knew where they were going. The lawyers would argue they were 15 years old minors therefore didn't know what they were doing {put expletive here}
Leave her where she is and revoke her citizenship, bring the kid back, as that's the only innocent part of this mess, and put it up for adoption.
For all we know her "husband" has probably put her up to this, she gets repatriated back to Britain, lives off the state, meanwhile he like many other ISIS fighters have merged into the background claiming to be a refugee, mingling with the very people they have terrorised for so long, and sooner or later he will find himself in Britain playing house with his "wife and kid" yet another sleeper cell!
Title: Re: Shamima Begum and ISIS
Post by: Sorastro on March 04, 2019, 11:11:20 AM
She has been relinquished of her citizenship, Jeremy Corbyn says "She has every right to return to Britain" it's statements like that that will ensure he never becomes P.M.

Her husband says the both of them, by joining ISIS "made a mistake" that's like saying WW2 was a bit of a misunderstanding.
He wants them both to live together in the Netherlands, for starters they should be kept as far apart as possible {separate prisons} and the Netherlands should relinquish HIS citizenship too.
These pair are talking to the media like they've just be caught pinching a Mars bar from the Coop and are sorry and it won't happen again.  This country is a soft touch when it comes to dealing with wrongdoers, how many times have you seen {or heard} from the authorities the phrase "We are going to get tough with these people", it's laughable.
I did mention on another similar post about Britain adopting some American states 3 strikes and your out policy when it comes to wrongdoers. Having seen one such case recently on the news of a man in the U.S. may cause some debate on the issue. He is accused of stealing a doughnut from a shop valued at 60 cents, he appears to have been convicted of the offence, because of the 3 strike rule in that state and this being his 3rd offence he is looking at spending the rest of his life in jail.
Harsh..... yes at first glance {not knowing his other two offences} was he guilty? that was for the courts to decide and they did, but he like everyone else in that state knew about the 3 strike rule.

It would be silly of anyone to imply that I'm comparing doughnuts to ISIS but common sense should prevail, the doughnut mans case should be closely re examined for it's severity... the ISIS couples case should be re examined for it's leniency.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum and ISIS
Post by: Sorastro on March 09, 2019, 03:42:54 PM
Rarely do I respond and get entrenched on matters political but this really has my blood boiling over the ISIS bride.

Watching BBC news this morning of the [obvious] tragic death of her baby, they interviewed Kirsty McNeill head of policy Save the Children. She immediately launched into a Nationwide guilt trip, basically blaming us by saying "Why wasn't she and her child allowed back into the country? had she been the child would be alive today"
What's worse is that Diane Abbott and labour {who want to roll out the welcome mat for her} are trying to score political points from this, just how low can you get.

Shamima Begum and her "husband" were on their THIRD child, where they were, how they lived and what they were doing meant the last thing they were doing was playing happy families, this ultimately meant that their offspring stood little chance of survival so if anyone's to blame it's the parents.   

Shamima Begum's child is just one of the thousands of children who die in the world daily, a great number of the tragedies are avoidable {non more so than in this case as the vast majority of others don't have a choice} but until the countries concerned start taking responsibility for their own instead of waiting for handouts and the kindness of others, it will continue.

Just for the sake of argument she is allowed to return to Britain what then?
She's virtually unemployable, irrespective of what might be said she will remain in that ISIS mind set, this means she will be despised and she and her family threatened so the country will have to spend millions protecting them and/or giving them new identities. 
You know the old adage "It doesn't pay to be honest"
Be an honest citizen all your life and you'll get no help at all........ Be an absolute b*****d and the do-gooders will be falling all over themselves to help.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum and ISIS
Post by: Alsatian on March 09, 2019, 05:53:37 PM
 And to add insult to injury I heard on one news report that there was the possibility of legal proceedings against the government???!!!

I can't get my breath - who was it that said "stop the world I want to get off!"?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum and ISIS
Post by: Sorastro on March 09, 2019, 07:51:58 PM
And to add insult to injury I heard on one news report that there was the possibility of legal proceedings against the government???!!!

I can't get my breath - who was it that said "stop the world I want to get off!"?

I forgot to put this in my last post:-
Anyone thinking she was an innocent party in all this that had her head turned should remember...Guilty by association.
The three of them knew EXACTLY what they were doing when they boarded the plane, and in my mind THAT'S the precise moment when they should have lost their British citizenship, not argue the toss now.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum and ISIS
Post by: Sorastro on April 16, 2019, 08:29:44 PM
It's appears she will be allowed to apply for legal aid, I'm confused {as well as fuming}

If she has been stripped of her British citizenship WHICH SHE HAS! how can she, "as a British citizen" apply for legal aid. It's not being thought out, she has lost her citizenship, end of.
Jeremy Corbyn says she has the right to apply, of course you can when your going to tie courts up for what could be years and it won't cost you a penny of your own money.
During war you were hung as a traitor if you sided with the "enemy" today you lose your citizenship, I call that being let off lightly and she should count her blessings. If anyone said to me "Well what if it was your daughter in this situation?" I would say "I don't have a daughter!!"

I think any chance of Corbyn becoming P.M. at the next election, as you walk into the polling booths just remember the above........
Title: Re: Shamima Begum and ISIS
Post by: Old Cruser on April 17, 2019, 08:26:09 AM
I was surprised by this as the last I heard they had stopped legal aid - or was that for certain things?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum and ISIS
Post by: Sorastro on October 26, 2019, 12:33:02 PM
I have read in the paper today that "Shamima Begum fears for her life in camp".....
So far she has been held in a Kurdish controlled camp in the North of Syria, now Trump has fetched all the Yanks out the Kurds were beginning to be overrun from the invading Turkish army and she's afraid that the Kurds will leave them unprotected.
No one should live like that but..

I think the realisation of where she went and who she got mixed up with {and why} has certainly come back to bite her in the bum. I think it will do her good to spend a few nights wetting herself not knowing what's going to happen to her, it may give her perspective as to what her actions led to and what her "husband" and others in I.S. members brought upon their victims for months. I've no idea what will befall her or the others in her situation if the Turkish army does take control, you can bet it won't be a walk in the park and if she does survive she will have been a damn sight luckier than people facing I.S. 

Making wrong choices can have far reaching consequences for not only you but others indirectly, surely she's figured that out by now and in a way I'm sorry for her plight...but not sorry enough to want her back here.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum and ISIS
Post by: Old Cruser on October 26, 2019, 02:26:00 PM
The only thing I think about this whole mess for her is that she was young and foolish as we all have been. Unfortunately as you say it's come back to bite her bum and she can't move forward or make amends for her foolishness as most of us can when dropping a clanger as young people.
She's 'high risk' to our country unfortunately even though she may say different.