Time for a revolution?

[chesterfieldchris]

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[Pete]

Well that's where we definitely agree. I don't begrudge paying my taxes - I like the infrastructure of this country to be in great form. What gets my goat is the amount of taxpayers money we currently spend on wars. Wars where people we don't know, or have a problem with, are slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands -  men, women, children and babies.

And when we pull out the old loyalties and tribal traditions swing back in and we are forgotten.

So, when we are out of Afghanistan and Iraq, how much will the UK taxpayer have spent?

Now that's a question...

And obviously the follow up question would be, "what could we have spent that money on?"

[Pete]

No takers?

Must admit I'm a little disappointed. 

[chesterfieldchris]

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[Fly]

Anyone like to enlighten my why they stopped doing CSE, GCE exams.
Then re-categarized them as GCSE's

Personally I think this was a backward step.

[therealjr]

The Nanny state decided it was too much pressure on the kids to have them study for 2 years and then have success and failure based on one 3 hour exam at the end of it. Much better to let them work towards it for the whole 2 years.
The fact that they learn nothing about pressure, deadlines and the rigours of the real world didn't seem to matter.

[Fly]

Cheers JR. Your comment is appreciated 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Certificate_of_Secondary_Education

And look who were in gov at the time of the change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_1986_British_incumbents

Did the tory's know they'd lose the next election, leave the country in turmoil, then gather the £££ this time round.
That is, after blaming the previous gov for all the demise.

[chesterfieldchris]

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[k4blades]

The education system has been dramatically dummed down. Teachers aren't as well educated as they used to be....we get letters from school with spelling mistakes on for example, nor do they have the same levels of discipline.
Add to that the mad idea that everyone should be aiming for a place in University, never mind the fact that they aren't educated well enough to attend, move the goal posts and let them in, then at least the Govt won't have to worry about finding jobs for school leavers, God forbid they should be encouraged to go out and get their hands dirty at 16.
That attitude mushroomed under Labour because they seem to think that the old system of only a few going to Uni was elitist while they believe in "inclusivity". Complete bollocks, of course, there is nothing wrong with leaving school young without a degree as long as you have a country that respects ALL types of work, such as factory workers, construction workers, etc, rather than thinking we should leave all that to foreigners while we all become advertising executives.
13 years of Blairism has a lot to answer for, but the blinkered left can't see it so constantly  go on about how bad Maggie was...

[Fly]

would the people who can't see further than the red rosette

I asked a genuine question. Did they forsee and prepare to cash in next time round ?

I'm starting to wonder if anything the Tories do would ever be seen as positive

What were you doing in 84/85 ?
I was 17 and backing the majority of UK miners, trying to save an industry for the future generations.

One of the below links looks like they're a bunch of grabbing batsards.
The other one looks like they were trying to help the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)

Best put my rosette blinkers back on and wait for the flack 

[k4blades]

Easy to blame Thatcher for taking the miners jobs, when are people going to realise that it wasn't Maggie who stole their jobs, but the foreign miners across the world, producing coal at half the cost.

[Fly]

So importing coal produced by slave labour was ok.
So much for being a self sufficient country.
Let's not look after our own, we'll take the cheap option and put thousands on the dole 

[chesterfieldchris]

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[Pete]

Wow, what a thread. As usual gone way off topic, but that's the price of relaxed moderation…

TBH I generally don't trust politicians of any persuasion.

I am no fan of the Labour or Conservative parties, I think Margaret Thatcher did untold damage and I also think Tony Blair should be tried for war crimes.

I can't describe myself as poor despite being on a low salary - but I object to having been lumped in with "poor people, relatively speaking, rob the treasury of billions by buying their cheap fags and booze, etc.". There are more honest than dishonest folks, but that may not suit some people's arguments.

>> the rich, who will eventually pull us out of this financial mess with their investments and job creation

Why don't they do it now? What are they waiting for? Or is that concept just wishful thinking?

I am also a huge fan of Bill Gates - people could learn a lot from that man on many subjects. A true hero.

>> Easy to blame Thatcher for taking the miners jobs, when are people going to realise that it wasn't Maggie who stole their jobs, but the foreign miners across the world, producing coal at half the cost.

Not quite true, as I remember, the coal strike was broken using foreign coal subsidised by their governments. Governments that probably thought it is better to have folks working supported by subsidies than to have them unemployed.

For a thread about trillions of pounds being hidden from the taxman it's sad to see no rational discussion, just childish bickering and gross exaggeration. Bits of this sound like ten year old school kids who have just been voted top of the class.

As for my views and opinions - this is a discussion forum and part of a mod's duties is to start threads where folks can have their say - so, like newspapers I post stories that are current.  Just look at the Guardian, Mail and Telegraph sites - headlines look familiar? Stop bashing me for that, if it was left to you guys there would be no forum. How many threads have you started? Don't you think it would help everyone if you came up with some fresh topics yourselves for the good of the group? Or don't you care?

And for the record there is no FlyandPete, except that we were the two who went to the trouble of building a forum where subjects can be freely discussed and not snipped to death by over zealous moderators. Me and Fly are like chalk and cheese, but we seem to get on OK.

[k4blades]

Thats a good post Pete.

1) Yes, you do start a lot of topics, but they are always of a left leaning slant, which is why some of us may find it tedious. You don't have to agree with what the Govt are doing, but try basing some posts on facts. Constant whinging abouts cuts is daft, there haven't been any, public spending is increasing, the deficit is increasing. If you want to criticise Osborne do it for his failing to do what he said, not because he comes from a privileged background and went to a posh school.

2) In short, yes we should have a revolution, if that's what the topic is, but as I said before, it won't happen. But I don't want a revolution because I don't like the fact that someone is better off than me, I want a revolution because our politicians refuse to listen to the public...that applies to both sides,  as I keep mentioning, it was Brown who slagged off one of his own voters because she mentioned immigration, but when those voters turn to a party that will discuss immigration, people like you accuse them of being right-wingers.

3) The idea that Govt. should subsidise coal  is a joke and shows how little you understand economics. Apart from being against international law,  the coal miner might like getting paid a lot for being inefficient but he wouldn't have been paid by the Govt, they would have been paid by me and you in our taxes, and most people object to paying for a more expensive version of something which they could get much cheaper. And why the miners, why don't the Govt pay me £500, irrespective of how my business runs, then I could work less hours, why don't they guarantee JR an extra £500 for his work at Sainsburys, its better than him having to go benefits.
The answer is because it leads to mass inefficiency, and will bankrupt the country which is exactly what happened in the 70s, which is why Maggie won so convincingly, people wouldn't trust Labour. And when they did, they repeated their crimes but instead of employing inefficient miners, they created banks of quangos, civil servants, etc....

As Chris keeps saying, if you want money, you need private enterprise to create that money. It doesn't grow on trees, and no-one should expect to given it for free.