Hasland Junction review

[Old Cruser]

I know this layout needs sorting, if you want to drop in and have your say about it see the link below (think I'll change OC to  mrs Derbyshire    )

http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/council/news_events/news-updates/2013/june/news_items/hasland_junction__we_want_your_views.asp

[therealjr]

I know this layout needs sorting,

why?

[Old Cruser]

why?

http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/grassroots/hasland-council-pledges-to-review-accident-blackspot-after-teen-knocked-down-1-5508062

[Fly]

Have you tried crossing the road there JR, it's a bit shall I shan't I. Not good for the younger or older generations.
The time allowed to cross the road is ridiculous I've heard.
It's also chaos outside the shops for parking. Or more the point, getting out of a parking spot. Been there !!

[therealjr]

well seeing as I live about 500 yards away from it, yes I've driven it, yes I've crossed the road and I've been in and out of the parking spaces.
Let's be clear.
The lights haven't caused a single accident. The only way the lights can cause an accident is if the phasing fails and both ways go on green at the same time. Hasn't happened.
The accidents have all been caused by bad driving.
Case in point. The young lad in the paper article linked to by OC was as I understand it knocked down by a driver who impatiently pulled round a bus and in doing so went through the lights on red.
Now if you want to argue that the lights, as opposed to the original roundabout (designed and installed by CBC when they had the highways agency) have made it easier for drivers to drive badly then thats a different matter.

[Fly]

Case in point. The young lad in the paper article linked to by OC was as I understand it knocked down by a driver who impatiently pulled round a bus and in doing so went through the lights on red.

Then if that is the case, the driver has been prosecuted for 'dangerous driving', or 'driving without due care and attention', yes ?

Now if you want to argue that the lights, [SNIP], have made it easier for drivers to drive badly then thats a different matter.

That's my point. If a system makes drivers drive badly, surely it at least needs looking at.

[Pete]

There is no excuse for bad driving. If someone drives badly they should be banned - end of.

My niggle with bad drivers started a few years ago when Chesterfield adopted a "new" attitude to traffic lights - green light meant go, amber light meant go and red light meant two more cars then stop. 

[Old Cruser]

It seems an increasing trend to put traffic lights in daft places - near a bus stop is one of them (not excusing anyone who over takes and knows there are traffic lights.
I'm not familiar with road names around Chesterfield but on Monday i drove down past the Q P leisure centre to the island and turned left - my first words as I rounded the corner - shit- the lights are on red - I am now in a prome position for a bang up the rear end. Some rivers come so fast round the  the islands don't they.
Another spot is going down the hill ( the roundabout below Walton hospital) towards the traffic lights on Derby road.
There we have a bus stop and bollards in the middle of the road - so when a bus stops - no one can pass.
Just poor pre- thinking.
Sorry went off original topic -

[therealjr]

Fly: you misunderstand me. I don't think the layout 'causes' people to drive badly. It's more that when you came to the roundabout you had to slow down to go round it, you had to be aware of cars coming from 2 directions. Now you just assume that the lights give you the right of way and as Pete says you are more inclined to go on Amber and not stop unless the red is on 50 yards before you arrive at the junction.
The point is that the original system was designed as a 'traffic calming' measure to slow vehicles going through the village. Removing that 'calming' effect has increased the speed again.
Again as I said you could argue that the two sets of lights in a 200 yard stretch is causing bad drivers to take chances.

As to a prosecution sorry, no info.

[Slacker]

There's definitely an increase in road-rage incidents. You don't have to spend lon in front of the shops before you hear someone tooting or shouting.

The traffic lights have changed people's behaviour. People rush to beat the lights when they would have been inclined not to when it was a mini roundabout. Therefore stopping to pull into a parking space from outbound direction causes anger. Trying to pull out of a parking space people don't want to let you out. For pedestrians crossing a coup[le of minutes seems like a lifetime so they jump the lights. If there are a lot of vehicles turning right into The Green the lights have changed before they move.

The original plans had a left filter arrow for traffic turning left into The Green but that turned out not to be possible without losing parking.

It was sold to the Community Forum as a good idea and well supported in early 2011. Maybe the decision then should have been for wider consultation but I wasn't Chair at that time so I'm not taking the blame for that one.

[Big Dave]

Fly: you misunderstand me. I don't think the layout 'causes' people to drive badly. It's more that when you came to the roundabout you had to slow down to go round it, you had to be aware of cars coming from 2 directions. Now you just assume that the lights give you the right of way and as Pete says you are more inclined to go on Amber and not stop unless the red is on 50 yards before you arrive at the junction.

Which is driving badly and is caused by the traffic lights.

[therealjr]

Which is driving badly and using the lights as an excuse!

[Scimitar]

Just an observation - have you not noticed yourselves that when traffic lights fail, people drive far more sensibly, and it does not seem to cause major congestion. It makes drivers more cautious - they have no ambers or reds to jump, and they slow down and see if its safe to go.
Not putting my Jeremy Clarkson head on and saying ban all traffic lights you understand, but some are plainly not required.

[Big Dave]

Which is driving badly and using the lights as an excuse!

No it isn't. The lights cause of the bad driving; re-read what you wrote,

"Now you just assume that the lights give you the right of way and as Pete says you are more inclined to go on Amber and not stop unless the red is on 50 yards before you arrive at the junction."

Remove the lights and drivers can't go through them on at any colour; green, amber or red - the cause of the bad driving is gone. That's not some airy-fairy excuse, it's tangible.

As Scimitar states; when lights fail, drivers drive far more sensibly i.e. cautiously - every out of action traffic light has become a give way line. Mini roundabouts work like that, drivers slow on the approach to the give way lines; there is no green or amber, no one has carte-blanche permission to proceed at unabated speed.

[Old Cruser]

Have you noticed though that on the mini roundabouts there are some drivers who don't know their left from their right - and so don't seem to know when it's their turn to go or when to give way