Chesterfield Online Forum
General Category => Chesterfield Discussion => Topic started by: Old Cruser on June 11, 2013, 10:51:51 AM
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I know this layout needs sorting, if you want to drop in and have your say about it see the link below (think I'll change OC to mrs Derbyshire ::) )
http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/council/news_events/news-updates/2013/june/news_items/hasland_junction__we_want_your_views.asp (http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/council/news_events/news-updates/2013/june/news_items/hasland_junction__we_want_your_views.asp)
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I know this layout needs sorting,
why?
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why?
http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/grassroots/hasland-council-pledges-to-review-accident-blackspot-after-teen-knocked-down-1-5508062 (http://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/grassroots/hasland-council-pledges-to-review-accident-blackspot-after-teen-knocked-down-1-5508062)
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Have you tried crossing the road there JR, it's a bit shall I shan't I. Not good for the younger or older generations.
The time allowed to cross the road is ridiculous I've heard.
It's also chaos outside the shops for parking. Or more the point, getting out of a parking spot. Been there !!
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well seeing as I live about 500 yards away from it, yes I've driven it, yes I've crossed the road and I've been in and out of the parking spaces.
Let's be clear.
The lights haven't caused a single accident. The only way the lights can cause an accident is if the phasing fails and both ways go on green at the same time. Hasn't happened.
The accidents have all been caused by bad driving.
Case in point. The young lad in the paper article linked to by OC was as I understand it knocked down by a driver who impatiently pulled round a bus and in doing so went through the lights on red.
Now if you want to argue that the lights, as opposed to the original roundabout (designed and installed by CBC when they had the highways agency) have made it easier for drivers to drive badly then thats a different matter.
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Case in point. The young lad in the paper article linked to by OC was as I understand it knocked down by a driver who impatiently pulled round a bus and in doing so went through the lights on red.
Then if that is the case, the driver has been prosecuted for 'dangerous driving', or 'driving without due care and attention', yes ?
Now if you want to argue that the lights, [SNIP], have made it easier for drivers to drive badly then thats a different matter.
That's my point. If a system makes drivers drive badly, surely it at least needs looking at.
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There is no excuse for bad driving. If someone drives badly they should be banned - end of.
My niggle with bad drivers started a few years ago when Chesterfield adopted a "new" attitude to traffic lights - green light meant go, amber light meant go and red light meant two more cars then stop. ::)
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It seems an increasing trend to put traffic lights in daft places - near a bus stop is one of them (not excusing anyone who over takes and knows there are traffic lights.
I'm not familiar with road names around Chesterfield but on Monday i drove down past the Q P leisure centre to the island and turned left - my first words as I rounded the corner - shit- the lights are on red - I am now in a prome position for a bang up the rear end. Some rivers come so fast round the the islands don't they.
Another spot is going down the hill ( the roundabout below Walton hospital) towards the traffic lights on Derby road.
There we have a bus stop and bollards in the middle of the road - so when a bus stops - no one can pass.
Just poor pre- thinking.
Sorry went off original topic -
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Fly: you misunderstand me. I don't think the layout 'causes' people to drive badly. It's more that when you came to the roundabout you had to slow down to go round it, you had to be aware of cars coming from 2 directions. Now you just assume that the lights give you the right of way and as Pete says you are more inclined to go on Amber and not stop unless the red is on 50 yards before you arrive at the junction.
The point is that the original system was designed as a 'traffic calming' measure to slow vehicles going through the village. Removing that 'calming' effect has increased the speed again.
Again as I said you could argue that the two sets of lights in a 200 yard stretch is causing bad drivers to take chances.
As to a prosecution sorry, no info.
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There's definitely an increase in road-rage incidents. You don't have to spend lon in front of the shops before you hear someone tooting or shouting.
The traffic lights have changed people's behaviour. People rush to beat the lights when they would have been inclined not to when it was a mini roundabout. Therefore stopping to pull into a parking space from outbound direction causes anger. Trying to pull out of a parking space people don't want to let you out. For pedestrians crossing a coup[le of minutes seems like a lifetime so they jump the lights. If there are a lot of vehicles turning right into The Green the lights have changed before they move.
The original plans had a left filter arrow for traffic turning left into The Green but that turned out not to be possible without losing parking.
It was sold to the Community Forum as a good idea and well supported in early 2011. Maybe the decision then should have been for wider consultation but I wasn't Chair at that time so I'm not taking the blame for that one.
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Fly: you misunderstand me. I don't think the layout 'causes' people to drive badly. It's more that when you came to the roundabout you had to slow down to go round it, you had to be aware of cars coming from 2 directions. Now you just assume that the lights give you the right of way and as Pete says you are more inclined to go on Amber and not stop unless the red is on 50 yards before you arrive at the junction.
Which is driving badly and is caused by the traffic lights.
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Which is driving badly and using the lights as an excuse!
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Just an observation - have you not noticed yourselves that when traffic lights fail, people drive far more sensibly, and it does not seem to cause major congestion. It makes drivers more cautious - they have no ambers or reds to jump, and they slow down and see if its safe to go.
Not putting my Jeremy Clarkson head on and saying ban all traffic lights you understand, but some are plainly not required.
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Which is driving badly and using the lights as an excuse!
No it isn't. The lights cause of the bad driving; re-read what you wrote,
"Now you just assume that the lights give you the right of way and as Pete says you are more inclined to go on Amber and not stop unless the red is on 50 yards before you arrive at the junction."
Remove the lights and drivers can't go through them on at any colour; green, amber or red - the cause of the bad driving is gone. That's not some airy-fairy excuse, it's tangible.
As Scimitar states; when lights fail, drivers drive far more sensibly i.e. cautiously - every out of action traffic light has become a give way line. Mini roundabouts work like that, drivers slow on the approach to the give way lines; there is no green or amber, no one has carte-blanche permission to proceed at unabated speed.
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Have you noticed though that on the mini roundabouts there are some drivers who don't know their left from their right - and so don't seem to know when it's their turn to go or when to give way
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Lack of awareness and poor observation contribute to a great many accidents. They're often used as excuses e.g.. "Sorry, didn't see you..." but they're not, they're reasons.
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The old crossings were dangerous after the mini roundabouts, so I suppose that's better now. One thing I've seen a few times is drivers coming up from town turning right to grassmoor going straight through on red into the right turn filter lane and waiting there for the lights to change, thus driving straight through the crossing there. That could be resolved by making road markings a bit clearer to those who in my opinion shouldn't be driving.
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Wait and see what is done - just hope they really did listen to people
Positive response to Hasland consultation
18 June 2013
More than 250 people turned out last week to give their views about what changes were needed at Hasland junction.
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Independent traffic and safety consultants URS held a drop-in session on our behalf at Hasland Methodist Church Hall last Wednesday.
The event was organised after local people raised safety concerns about the traffic lights and the layout of the junction between Hasland Road and Mansfield Road which they say is causing congestion.
Engineers were on hand to listen to people's comments and discuss their ideas throughout the day and 259 comments were handed in.
Councillor Dean Collins, our deputy cabinet member for jobs, economy and transport, said:
"We know there are strong feelings within the community about this junction.
"Putting communities at the heart of decision-making is one of our top priorities so we're pleased so many people made the effort to come and talk to us about what changes they would like to see."
All of the comments received on the day will be considered alongside other feedback we have received about Hasland junction to help draw-up new proposals for the road layout.
Any new proposals will be discussed with cabinet members and the local councillor before being shared with local people.
The public will be able to comment on the new proposals as part of a formal consultation and their comments will be considered before any decision is made about what action should be taken.
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Traffic control is for wimps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-q968S0lw8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-q968S0lw8)
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It's not dissimilar to Whit Moor Roundabout ::)
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The lights are far better than the mini roundabout was...
Perhaps its more about moving the bus stop??
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That may well be the answer PP we will have to wait and see what they propose to do
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I have heard on peak radio that they are to put in another roundabout in Hasland.
Has anyone any more news on this please
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Have heard the same report OC. Drove through Hasland yesterday, felt sorry for cars trying to get out of the parking areas, it's a joke. I let someone out, looks like they'd been there ages.
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Slacker posted on YouTube about this:
Hasland Traffic Lights Radio Sheffield Interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u02Mx1lmw7I#)
Not the most exciting thing I've ever seen... :P
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Only used youtube because I don't know of a decent audio hosting site
http://tinyurl.com/q5yzwu8 (http://tinyurl.com/q5yzwu8)
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Sunday morning travelling from Grassmoor area I pulled up at the traffic lights in Hasland which were on red.
On changing to Green I began to pull off - only to see a woman slowly walking across the road in front of me?
and they blame the LIGHTS!!!
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Sunday morning travelling from Grassmoor area I pulled up at the traffic lights in Hasland which were on red.
On changing to Green I began to pull off - only to see a woman slowly walking across the road in front of me?
and they blame the LIGHTS!!!
which was my point about 10 posts ago. Most if not all of the accidents have had diddly squat to do with the lights.
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@ Alsatian - I reckon she didn't realise the crossing had gone - just thought I was waiting for her to poddle along and half of Hasland to cross the road.
Could have shoved her up the jacksie with my toe end to be honest she walked so slow - then I moved off - but before I had turned left onto the main road the flipping lights were changing
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People are so impatient with crossings. Its the same in town centre near Greggs & Royal Bank of Scotland. Most will press the button, and wait for a few seconds, but then cross anyway, irrespective of what the traffic lights are showing to drivers.
Maybe both locations would be better if the crossings had railings at the edge of the pavement to "channel" pedestrians to the proper crossing point.
On reflection, Hasland was possibly better before the new traffic light system IMHO.Traffic flow was better, & drivers parking at the shops at least had half a chance of getting back into traffic. I've noticed in various locations where traffic lights fail (i.e. due to a power cut for example), that drivers are much more cautious, therefore less likely to speed up and try and run a red light.
Technology does not always improve things. Turning right to Grassmoor from town for example - the light turns green towards the shops, so you pull forward for the right turn filter light - & sometimes it does, sometimes it goes back to red. Scary when you are driving a bus - but what do you do? Sit there and block everything, or just go as quickly as you can before the other lights turn green?
I'm sure the traffic flow was better before the present set up in Hasland.
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@ Alsatian - I reckon she didn't realise the crossing had gone - just thought I was waiting for her to poddle along and half of Hasland to cross the road.
Could have shoved her up the jacksie with my toe end to be honest she walked so slow - then I moved off - but before I had turned left onto the main road the flipping lights were changing
Think you mean @threaljr!
But, an experience this morning that also had nowt to do with the lights:
1) driver (female and elderly) coming from town went through the lights (which were at green) towards Winsick.
2) large lorry delivering to Hasland shops parked obstructing the bays - albeit all of them already occupied
3) said car driver stops just after lights indicating right to park in bays at front of shops, although there was no way of doing this due to aforesaid lorry - and bays all being full!!!
4) result - total chaos!!!!
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Sorry Alsatian - if I can get it wrong - I will ;)
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Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I had the necessity to cross the road in the village tonight and I think I've Sussed what the issue is. The lights go through two cycles before they let pedestrians have a turn. So you stand at a junction and think 1-2-3 routes been green must be my turn, set off and find a car coming at you.
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Hopefully the issue will be resolved soon
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How? Are you going to ban all idiots off the road and pavements