Health and safety on buses

[Old Cruser]

Does Chesterfield borough council check on the health and safety practises on our local buses.
I averted an incident today on one of them, and not at all impressed by the seemingly lack of knowledge or implications of the driver concerned. 

[Scimitar]

Why - what happened?
Was it Stagecoach?

[Old Cruser]

Yes i believe they are Stage Coach, don't really use them myself though.

I was amazed that the driver had no perception of what would happen to the wheelchair user who was expected to get off the bus WITHOUT the ramp down. The step down was far too high and the wheelchair and it's occupant would have pitched forward had I not intervened. The bus driver then said to wheelchair user 'I will help you down' as they took hold of the back handels on the wheelchair. I pointed out the wheelchair was heavy. I hadn't a clue what they were proposing to do?
Driver then fetched the portable ramp and put it down for wheelchair user to exit bus!! This last option took all of two minutes!
I know for a fact that taxi's who carry wheelchair users have to adhere by health and safety rules --- so what is the difference for the bus drivers?? 
Anyone???

[Fly]

In the next year or so, any taxi driver who drives a wheelchair friendly taxi,
will have to pay for, and pass, a course to prove their competence.

If my or our_lass's saloon taxi breaks down, the temp replacement mat be wheelchair friendly.
If we ain't got the certificate, we ain't got a vehicle :-(

Now this is a guess, but I bet the certificate is only available via the Town Hall.
Money = town Hall * 2 

[Scimitar]

In the next year or so, any taxi driver who drives a wheelchair friendly taxi,
will have to pay for, and pass, a course to prove their competence.

If my or our_lass's saloon taxi breaks down, the temp replacement mat be wheelchair friendly.
If we ain't got the certificate, we ain't got a vehicle :-(

Now this is a guess, but I bet the certificate is only available via the Town Hall.
Money = town Hall * 2 

CPC by any chance? (certificate of professional competancy)

[Fly]

Not sure, will look it up 

[Old Cruser]

Well the CPC (if bus drivers have to have them) didn't make any difference in this case. My point being if taxi drivers have to adhere by these rules and bus drivers dont WHY. Do DCC think that because they are buses and not taxis it makes a difference? I think not!
In this case what would have happened when the person concerned crashed forwards onto the pavement with the powered chair on top of them - slap on the wrist for the driver/bus company or hauled before a 'panel' to answer searching questions??

[Fly]

@Old Cruser
As I'm sure you are aware, Scimitar, is a bus driver, me a taxi driver.

I'll try to post and put the rules and regs that a CBC taxi driver has to adhere to.
I'm sure Scimitar will, if it's allowed by his employee, do similiar.

You made a very good and valid post 
I'll be watching this one 

[Scimitar]

Yes i believe they are Stage Coach, don't really use them myself though.

I was amazed that the driver had no perception of what would happen to the wheelchair user who was expected to get off the bus WITHOUT the ramp down. The step down was far too high and the wheelchair and it's occupant would have pitched forward had I not intervened. The bus driver then said to wheelchair user 'I will help you down' as they took hold of the back handels on the wheelchair. I pointed out the wheelchair was heavy. I hadn't a clue what they were proposing to do?
Driver then fetched the portable ramp and put it down for wheelchair user to exit bus!! This last option took all of two minutes!
I know for a fact that taxi's who carry wheelchair users have to adhere by health and safety rules --- so what is the difference for the bus drivers?? 
Anyone???

Sounds like the bus driver should have took control of the situation.
Most bus stops have raised kerbs, and the buses can lower the front suspension at bus stops, which usually means that the floor of the bus, and the kerb are virtally flush.
Usually the wheelchair user (who will be familiar with the stop) will know if the ramp is required or not so he will ask the driver to deploy it. The ramp is not automatically deployed therefore for every wheelchair user. Most times its not needed. I have yet to see a wheelchair user exit a bus with a perilously large drop.
All Stagecoach drivers are currently receiving training (mandatory) to receive a Certificate in Professional Competency, which amongst other things covers the Disability Discrimination Act.
As I said, the bus driver should have took control of the situation before you did, but, because you did, he probably thought there was no further assistance required, or maybe you were travelling together.
I know its not a nice thing to say, but if we were to jump out of the cab and deploy the ramp for each WU irrespective of whether they needed it or not, we would undoubtedly receive a verbal dressing down, because we would be disrespectful in assuming that they can't manage. Do you see what I mean - its a tricky area sometimes. In fact its a wonder your intervention albeit with the best intention, wasnt perceived in this way.

[Scimitar]

Not sure, will look it up 

If you have a PCV license the it is the CPC I think, 35 hours training weve got to do. Fortunately I've only got one course left to do.

[Scimitar]

Well the CPC (if bus drivers have to have them) didn't make any difference in this case. My point being if taxi drivers have to adhere by these rules and bus drivers dont WHY. Do DCC think that because they are buses and not taxis it makes a difference? I think not!
In this case what would have happened when the person concerned crashed forwards onto the pavement with the powered chair on top of them - slap on the wrist for the driver/bus company or hauled before a 'panel' to answer searching questions??

I dont think DCC has much say in this CPC is a Driving Standards Agency regulation.
Of course any incident of this type had it developed along the lines you suggested would have resulted in an investigation. A popular myth is that CCTV on buses is to help crime prevention. It also assists in bus driver dismissals. The driver would probably been suspended following further investigation, which is standard procedure,
and CCTV images viewed accordingly, along with any passenger witness comments.

[Old Cruser]

No I wasn't aware that Scimitar is a bus driver but have wondered by the interest shown in my post.

The stop in question was on a diverted bus route, the bus stop is temporary, so the wheelchair user was not familiar with the bus stop.The ramp eventually used was a manual ramp and the bus did not appear to have been dropped in line with the pavement. I have sufficient knowledge and training myself to recognise the dangers in this situation but having said that I would have thought most people would have. I was not travelling with the wheelchair user but meeting them off the bus.The driver was out of the cab but in my opinion was not aware of the risk to the wheelchair user. I think there comes a point in any moving off a bus that the wheelchair user will not be able to see the depth of the drop infront of them because of the foot plates?
I strongly disagree with your statement that bus drivers shouldn't be expected to check that it is safe for wheelchair users to get off the buses when the bus hasn't dropped in line with the pavement, and that hold hat about disrespect for checking doesn't wash with me. The driver eventually got the manual ramp and laid it down so the wheelchair user got down safely. I asked if there was a problem (thinking the ramp had something wrong with it) my reply - 'no - it's just been one of those days' In other words the driver was too busy to  want to get the ramp out!!  This is the third time there has been a problem with getting on/off a bus, so I am thinking how many more wheelchair users have similar problems.
Health and safety shouldn't be ignored no matter how harassed or busy the drivers are. Gaining a CPC is only useful if the drivers take note of it and put it into practise as in any job.
The other comment I would like to make is that I would also hope that the manual ramps are lightweight? as if not may be heavy for one person to keep lifting throughout the day?
I believe dcc should look at this quite closely just as they do taxi drivers.

[Old Cruser]

Well the CPC (if bus drivers have to have them) didn't make any difference in this case. My point being if taxi drivers have to adhere by these rules and bus drivers dont WHY. Do DCC think that because they are buses and not taxis it makes a difference? I think not!
In this case what would have happened when the person concerned crashed forwards onto the pavement with the powered chair on top of them - slap on the wrist for the driver/bus company or hauled before a 'panel' to answer searching questions??

I dont think DCC has much say in this CPC is a Driving Standards Agency regulation.
Of course any incident of this type had it developed along the lines you suggested would have resulted in an investigation. A popular myth is that CCTV on buses is to help crime prevention. It also assists in bus driver dismissals. The driver would probably been suspended following further investigation, which is standard procedure,
and CCTV images viewed accordingly, along with any passenger witness comments.

I really wouldn't want to get any driver suspended in this instance - my point is that training and regular checks by dcc should be put into place if not already - had the wheelchair user come off that bus without the ramp they would certainly have sustained some injury - I would have definately complained then.

[Fly]

Friday night OC, I'm not working tomorrow 

I'm glad Scimitar has posted his comments.
I'll do some research tomorrow, not sure if this is DCC or a CBC issue.
Taxis in chessy  come under CBC. Not DCC 

[Scimitar]

Like you say if the bus was on a diversion, and it was a temporary stop, then I (personally) would have expected the ramp to be deployed without question.
You are quite right, (Its been one of those days) is not an excuse.
The safety and security of our passengers is paramount, and this occurence today could (& should) have been handled better.
Had the person come to grief it seems there would be no excuse for the driver in any following investigation, as he would have had no grounds to back himself up with.
You can rest assured it was not me, as I'm on a rest day today, but I would have handled it differently.
The only other thing I can think of is that sometimes the bus lowering system fails (stops working), and you said the bus was not lowered. In which case it should have been taken off the road really.In which case the bus might not have turned up at all if they had not got a replacement one, but thats another story.
I'll apologise on behalf of stagecoach, although I am but a humble driver myself (not management-yet, or ever likely to be), and hope this incident today does not put you off using or services in future. The majority of drivers in the situation you described would have handled it better I'm sure.